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Something we need to discuss...

 
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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Something we need to discuss... Reply with quote

We haven't really done Shadowclan-lite branches before, so we have to figure out some things.

Once we form an outfit, we'll eventually have someone not from Shadowclan want to join. Do we let them? Or do we only allow members from other branches, that have already been a part of Shadowclan?

If we allow new members, how do we decide who we let in? Anyone who asks? Are we an open guild? Without requiring RP, if we're an open guild, we could get actual kewldewds. Do we want that?

Or, do we want to try to filter new members in some way? If so, in what way?

Do we want our Shadowclan-lite branches to help us with our Shadowclan recruiting? Do we want to try to move people that join us in our Shadowclan-lite branches into the main guild eventually? If so, how do we train them to be good Shadowclan members? Can we, and still remain Shadowclan-lite?

How will our choice of outfit name help or hurt us with all of this?

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Kursech



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for letting anyone join who wants to join. Good exposure, more people to work with, etc.

If a new person doesn't seem to get along well with the rest of us, they are free to go. Or if they do get along well, they are welcome to join in on other games like anyone else would be.

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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kursech wrote:
I'm all for letting anyone join who wants to join. Good exposure, more people to work with, etc.

If a new person doesn't seem to get along well with the rest of us, they are free to go. Or if they do get along well, they are welcome to join in on other games like anyone else would be.


If they don't get along with the rest of us, can we make them go? Or do we just have to put up with them? What do we do if they annoy the crap out of us?

if sum1 hooks up w/ us n talks all in teenage shorthand, kthnxbye, l8r, u no? I might barf. Do we allow those types in? Do we kick them out if they get in without us realizing?

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Crag



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about referrals?

All of us, beind SHadowclan members of good standing, should have the ability to refer non-shadowclan members to the upper admin personel who control the branch and/or outfit.

For example: Kursech meets Bob in Planetside. Kursech and Bob become friends and Kursech asks if Bob wants to join the 101st Mobile Infantry Shadow Corps! Bob, not ever being associated with Shadowclan, must be refered by Kursech to K'dahbruh (or the persons or group who controls the Admin of the branch). Once K'dah has gathered all resources and perhaps an entry form from Bob, he will than give the yay or nay.

Or we could just allow everyone in and lay down simple guidelines that all must follow.


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Xorv



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a lot easier if its just prior Shadowclan players. If we bring in new people we need to come up with formal rules and guidelines. Definately need some sort of vetting system as well, way too many idiots in MMOs these days and Planetside has way more than its fair share of them. Not saying I'm against bringing in new people, just that it means more work for the rest of us.

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Nocturne



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ability to work within the unit, fill roles, and MOST IMPORTANTLY follow orders, is what should dictate who we let in.

We should hold onto what we're looking for in this game- organized warfare with a structure and mimicking a real world army of sorts, it's what will make this branch attractive and entertaining more so than pick up squads and the like.


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Vorgak



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be more in favor of a sponsorship system. Person A wants to join, so we put them on a probationary period in which they're not in the outfit, but need to spend time with people who are. After the probationary period, put it to a vote or something of that nature. We'd have to have some simple guidelines/rules for members, such as being civil, no doodspeak, work with teh team, ect. Essentially give people time to accustom themselves to us, and see if we like them as much as they like us. We used to something similar for the walkers back on seige, and it worked well for the most part, though it'll make us a rather exclusive club in the end.
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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Something we need to discuss... Reply with quote

K'Dahbruh wrote:
We haven't really done Shadowclan-lite branches before, so we have to figure out some things.

Once we form an outfit, we'll eventually have someone not from Shadowclan want to join. Do we let them? Or do we only allow members from other branches, that have already been a part of Shadowclan?


I have no problem with new members.

Quote:
If we allow new members, how do we decide who we let in? Anyone who asks? Are we an open guild? Without requiring RP, if we're an open guild, we could get actual kewldewds. Do we want that?


Create a set of rules that d3wdz wouldn't be able to live with so that only mature players would seek us out.

Quote:
Or, do we want to try to filter new members in some way? If so, in what way?


If they screw up, boot 'em from the outfit.

Quote:
Do we want our Shadowclan-lite branches to help us with our Shadowclan recruiting? Do we want to try to move people that join us in our Shadowclan-lite branches into the main guild eventually? If so, how do we train them to be good Shadowclan members? Can we, and still remain Shadowclan-lite?


I assume if they join they'd want to know where our message board is to set up event times (like a coordinated raid on the TR or something). THey'll decide for themselves if the more RP-centered branches are something that interest them. We don't need to advertise.

Quote:
How will our choice of outfit name help or hurt us with all of this?


I promise that something like LasergunsPewPewPew will attract d3wdz to no end. Go with something normal sounding and boring. The d3wdz will be turned off by it.

Many military units have nicknames. Name us something like Kursech said: 101st Armored Infantry "Shadow Company"

I don't know if there is a limit to outfit names, but something like that would be much preferable to some stupid d3wdzor name.

I have been looking for info throughout the PlanetSide message boards and immature jackasses are there in abundance. In fact, I closed out all my chat windows yesterday and played for 4 hours in silence, because of some the language I saw on Broadcast (I won't post the details - Suffice to say, it was some disgusting crap). Those are the people that ruin the game, so let's do everything we can not to attract their attention at all.


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Krugok



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not start creating a bunch of rules to fix a problem that isn't happening.

There are enough "open outfits" that are looking for members that can take in whoever want that I dont think we need to worry about any super-scary AlTeRnAtInG CaPs person joining us. There just wouldn't be much of a benefit for them.

One thing that I would hope to see in these "mini-branches" is a bare minimum of rules. Adding rules to drive of other people that might join will likely drive off more people than you want.

If we need to add rules to stem a tide of people clogging out Outfit channel, lets just make it a closed outfit, and only add people already members of this board.


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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Let's not start creating a bunch of rules to fix a problem that isn't happening.


I wasn't thinking a chain of command, or equipment restrictions. I was thinking more along the lines of:

"No dude-speak is to be used ever."
"Participation in flame wars in the chat or teamspeak channels is forbidden."
"Use of foul language, insults, or threats is forbidden."


These are things I would expect to be understood by a Shadowclanner without having to have them written out, but I don't expect a d3wd to understand these right away.

And if any of you intend to use any of the above while in the outfit, then I'll just solo in this game. D3wdish behavior is what ruins most online games.


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Qef



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everytime you have more than two people in a community, you need some rules.

If we allow only Shadowclan members, then the rules are more implied then written.

If we use this as a way to entice new people, then it will be less of a shock to them if they decide to fully join Shadowclan, if some rules are already in place, then they at least expect some structure.

I am all for new members, but until some basic rules are in place, I think they shouldn't be exposed to Shadowclan proper. RP and Community are two ideals that are foreign to the vast majority of the Planetside playerbase. Only the most structured outfits exert any control over the actions of it's members.

On the other hand, properly implemented, these "Lite" guilds could be a good recruiting tool for SC proper.


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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qef wrote:
Everytime you have more than two people in a community, you need some rules.

If we allow only Shadowclan members, then the rules are more implied then written.

If we use this as a way to entice new people, then it will be less of a shock to them if they decide to fully join Shadowclan, if some rules are already in place, then they at least expect some structure.

I am all for new members, but until some basic rules are in place, I think they shouldn't be exposed to Shadowclan proper. RP and Community are two ideals that are foreign to the vast majority of the Planetside playerbase. Only the most structured outfits exert any control over the actions of it's members.

On the other hand, properly implemented, these "Lite" guilds could be a good recruiting tool for SC proper.


We should make this an RP-lite branch. Make /say and /squad be RP required. Use military speech such as "Bravo 2 to Bravo Leader, 3 Tangoes in Northwest tower...Over".

And then allow appropirate OOC in all other channels.


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Krugok



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khasha'an wrote:

We should make this an RP-lite branch. Make /say and /squad be RP required. Use military speech such as "Bravo 2 to Bravo Leader, 3 Tangoes in Northwest tower...Over".


No.

This isnt an RP game


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Wag'tuk



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about teamspeak or ventrilo.

We should include some guidelines in the use of this service. I like the idea of using military jergon; I would have to learn it, but it souds fun.


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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qef wrote:
Everytime you have more than two people in a community, you need some rules.

If we allow only Shadowclan members, then the rules are more implied then written.

If we use this as a way to entice new people, then it will be less of a shock to them if they decide to fully join Shadowclan, if some rules are already in place, then they at least expect some structure.

I am all for new members, but until some basic rules are in place, I think they shouldn't be exposed to Shadowclan proper. RP and Community are two ideals that are foreign to the vast majority of the Planetside playerbase. Only the most structured outfits exert any control over the actions of it's members.

On the other hand, properly implemented, these "Lite" guilds could be a good recruiting tool for SC proper.


This is closest to my view.

If we go with this, what rules should we have?

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Kursech



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alot of various clans and such that I've been in have only had one rule along the lines of "don't be a moron" or "don't piss the rest of us off" etc. More of a general implication that everyone is expected to be at least somewhat mature rather than anything concrete. From there, few issues ever seem to come up and most of them take care of themselves.

All of those instances had some kind of limited recruitment though, some more limited than others. The two most common things I think are sponsorship and trial membership or both at the same time.

Open recruitment with trial membership seems the most tested for SC. Not that every branch or random collection of SC members in another game has to work the same way, but it's a method that we're probably all familiar with and have seen work well. In all other branches that I'm aware of, a person can join and see how they like the clan before ever committing. If the person doesn't like it or doesn't seem to get along with anyone during that time, he/she's free to leave. Everyone else is welcome to stay provided they can (or in alot of cases seem to be genuinely attempting) to follow the rules.

In this case though, there are no rules about using various items or services or whathaveyou, and given the nature of it there probably shouldn't be. I guess the way I look at it, other branchs seem to have rp rules and quality control rules.

RP rules being things like "you can only be an orc." As much as it pains me to admit it, people who play orcs are most likely not any more mature than people who play night elves. Quality control rules would be things like you are expected to treat other players with respect."

There's probably overlap too, but I think you all see what I mean anyway. I've known alot of people in online games who wouldn't be able to follow the rp rules for the life of them, and thus have never been able to join SC. They are great people, but they just can't limit themselves to a race or talk a certain way or whatever.

Then I've known another type, a type I'm sure we've all seen in SC before, that can follow rp rules but can't follow quality control rules. There are people who love to roleplay who can't seem to interact with others without pissing everyone off.

Until now, the second type of player has always had a trial shot at being in SC. Sometimes they learn to cool down enough or force themselves to because they are motivated to play with the clan. But I daresay the first type has had comparitively less representation in the clan due to the nature of other branches (having to rp from the start mainly).

So I guess what I'm saying is I think a branch like this can display the "good group of people to play games with" side of SC without scaring away alot of people who can be overwhelmed or put off by rping. Maybe those people would not in a million years join SC in another game regardless of knowing people beforehand and not that I expect we'll recruit hundreds of people or anything, but I still say we should give the odd person here and there the benefit of the doubt.

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Qef



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K'Dahbruh wrote:
Qef wrote:
Everytime you have more than two people in a community, you need some rules.

If we allow only Shadowclan members, then the rules are more implied then written.

If we use this as a way to entice new people, then it will be less of a shock to them if they decide to fully join Shadowclan, if some rules are already in place, then they at least expect some structure.

I am all for new members, but until some basic rules are in place, I think they shouldn't be exposed to Shadowclan proper. RP and Community are two ideals that are foreign to the vast majority of the Planetside playerbase. Only the most structured outfits exert any control over the actions of it's members.

On the other hand, properly implemented, these "Lite" guilds could be a good recruiting tool for SC proper.


This is closest to my view.

If we go with this, what rules should we have?


1) Basic rules of behavior and conduct, both within and without the outfit.

2) Proper naming conventions, keeping it tasteful, though silly should be allowed

3) An established chain of command, but only for the purposes of Group activities.

4) Team effort and participation in Team events should be stressed. But there should be periods of free play as well.

5) Access to clan boards should be General and Planetside only. If they express an interest in other branches and the roleplay aspects of the clan proper, then they can go through the same process of gaining admission we all do.

6) Invite rights should be held at higher outfit ranks Since outfit points relate directly to rank, this prevents newcomers from spamming invites to everyone they find.

7) Speaking of spamming, we shouldn't, If someone expresses an interest in joining, fine.

Cool A ventrilo or teamspeak server, with password, should be available for those that want it, however it should not be enforced to use it.

9) Dewdisms should be severely limited, but some slang and abreviations will creep in, this is an FPS, speed of communications is important.

Things that should not be implementated

1) Formal clan traitor rules, people change outfits like clothes in this game

2) RP in any fashion, should not be enforced, nor should it be discouraged.

3) Any sense that this is anything other than a "lite" unofficial branch of Shadowclan.

4) Not required to join with a new character, if a BR25 wants to join, fine.


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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qef's got it just about right.

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Xorv



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading everyones posts here I think we're on the right track with this, but just to add an idea for recruitment...

I like the sponsorship idea, its what we went with in the SOR branch. Basically a player wants to join, he/she plays with us either outside of the Outfit or as a temporary member, and to get full member status has to get the sponsorship of three full members of the outfit in good standing. If a member sponsors people that turn out to be idiots too often then they loose the privilage to sponsor others in the future. A brief test by an officer to see that the new recruit has a grasp of what we're about and what rules we have, if any, is also a good idea.


Slightly off topic:

I'm also of the mind that we should officially declare two or three roles that we as an Outfit do together. Such as Armor and Gal drops. Then if not an actual cert requirement, at least a requirement for each player to have appropriate certs to fill at least one role in each of these Outfit endeavors. There's a whole discussion to have on this topic that hasn't really began yet, due to other topics taking up the lime light at the moment.



Last edited by Xorv on Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Krog Gug



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't bomb your own members (akru you mush head!).


HAR

I say basic shadowclan conduct, respect, if using teamspeak no cursing or foul language (in case of minors playing).

Following targets and waypoints of a current squad leader.............

Keep out of game talk out of game? but talk about planetside is fine?


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Krul



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good Qef.

One thing I don't like is:
Quote:
3) Any sense that this is anything other than a "lite" unofficial branch of Shadowclan


But basically that's a difference in views between me and TB/KD. I don't think that Shadowclan will be hurt by us having branches in games like Planetside with reasonable rules for the game. This 'lite' Shadowclan talkaround bothers me. I think of myself as Shadowclan, even in a game such as Planetside, and I hate the 'lite' connotation.

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