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Odd Park -- Why we should do it there way.

 
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Baggi



Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:34 pm    Post subject: Odd Park -- Why we should do it there way. Reply with quote

So i'm going through all the Youtube video's watching odd park and this is what i'm picking up from it.

1) On day 10 they still have 39 citizens and 150 rations of water. They have not yet done the Uber Well (or whatever it's called).

2) On day 10 they have 1296 defense, most of that is from defensive items (They have over 100 on day 10) and they only have 2 levels of defensive focus, having built Search tower to 5 on days 1-5.

3) Almost every single person in their town gets out and scavenges every day. They got lucky with the way their buildings were set up, but, even on day 10 they still havn't got plumbing yet because they haven't found an engine. (Although they finally found the engine on day 10)

day 11 defense: 1524
day 12 defense: 1713
day 13 defense: 1773

What really interests me about day 12 and day 13 defense is how small it grew, even though they have so many defensive objects and they upgraded defensive focus once again.

He showed the defensive buildings that they built and I believe they used something like 8 or 9 defensive objects in building those defensive structures. But it seems to me like a net loss in defense. I mean, if you have 100+ defensive objects and you upgrade defensive focus, you should get over 110 defense just from that.

I'll have to look into closer to see what happened.

Day 14: defense 2057

on Day 14, I notice from the video, they have 104 defensive objects, this is before he puts his "haul" into the bank that includes another defensive object.

They were asked on Day 14 for a tip, "How do we find a hacksaw?" the answer was, "Go out and scavenge."

Day 15: defense 2248
Day 16: defense 2427 (to add perspective, the attack was 1518 zombies)

One thing I should mention is that he has a segment on his video's called "Today's Haul". I'm through day 16 now and I believe out of those 16 days, only 2 he didn't return to the town with a heavy defensive item. Once he had an engine, and I believe there might have been on other day he didn't have a defensive item.

That says a lot right there.

In our next game, we should make it our goal, every single day of the game, to bring back a heavy defensive item. Every day, all of us.

Day 17: defense (unknown, didn't display it) He brought back another heavy defensive item on this day. 130 defensive items total in the town.

Day 18: defense 2663
Day 19: defense 2778
Day 20: defense 3018
Day 21: defense 3182
Day 22: defense 3276

BTW, a few days ago they built every defense they could build. The only thing now that is increasing their defense is either temp defenses, or defensive objects.

Day 23: defense 3507 (The attack was 3400 zombies, the day before was around 2400 zombies, huge spike).
Day 24: defense 3952 (the attack was 3955, so a few zombies got through it seems).

I don't see a day 25, but the predictor makes it look like they made it past that day. Ah well.

I think the point is clear. You need to get those defensive items if you plan to live that long.


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Hin



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, yep.
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Zarkh



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone should watch these videos.
Lot of good information and gameplay hints.


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watarg



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our problem is that we've been extremely unlucky with the search tower and our map placement. We get the absolute worst areas getting hit by the storm (south and west) which means maybe 6-10 squares that are undepleted. We've been depleting these areas every night with only 10-15 scavenging. I don't think extra scavengers would help since it only means we'll deplete sooner without getting additional defensive items.

It's Day 14 now and we still haven't gotten a single storm hitting the north. That's with a search tower since day 2. If we start getting storms hitting the pi-keya furniture, we'll start seeing a big bump in our defensive numbers.


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Baggi



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is, there are probably still 10 to 20 spots that are not depleted that we never even touched.

This is because we've never organized expeditions into those far corners. We never bothered. We had the twinoid at one point and we could have done a lot of damage, but we didn't bother.

I can't help but wonder if the storms are somehow controlled by the number of undepleted zones.

The North, the North West and the North East have the most undepleted zones in the game, not needing to be replenished.

While the zones that have been replenished are the ones we hit every day over and over again.


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Zarkh



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggi has a good point there.
We might have discovered a flunk in the game mechanics.
Maybe we can use it to our advantage in the next town.


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watarg



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggi wrote:

I can't help but wonder if the storms are somehow controlled by the number of undepleted zones.


I highly doubt it. That would mean they would have programmed the storms to "help" us survive.

It's fairer to say that we've been extremely unlucky. We've completely depleted east and yet it hasn't been replenished except 1 time. I'd rather east be replenished (Pi-keya) than sw, w, and s which seems to be where the majority of storms have hit. And i think we have more undepleted areas in west and sw than we have east.


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Ganthar



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched those videos and I wasn't all that impressed. Don't get me wrong there is some decent information in them but it's not the end all be all to Die2Nite.
The only reason the Zombie zoo really worked is due to the majority of the buildings being located in one set area. This also meant that if a storm hit up there they could then search a lot of buildings. The storms hit there so frequently that they eventually abandoned the zombie zoo because it became to difficult to maintain.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to diminish what they've accomplished but a lot of it has to do with lucky placement of the buildings into one general area of the map and storms frequently hitting their buildings combined with a respectable amount of team work.
The best thing to take away from those videos is the discussion on how they rationed/maximized their water usage. (Water usage and assigning jobs to maximize AP.)
As for them bringing home defensive items every night we need to get real about that. We don't have any real control over what we find when we're out scavenging unless we can all hit the furniture stores. Beyond that it's completely random and we can't plan on having every one bring one home every night.
We did really well early on with hitting our stores. However now that they're depleted we're having a much harder time finding defensive items. Once the storm hits them I think we'll have a new wave of defensive items.
There are things we can do better as a town but trying to be Odd Park Jr. isn't one of them.
Personally if some one used the first engine we found on day 10 for a chainsaw I would have made gallows and hung them.


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Girmluhk



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other gem I noted was that they had the map nearly cleared, and zooed long BEFORE they even had plumbing. ^^ Chainsaw im sure helped, but they sure did whack a lot of zombies the traditional way.

The main things we need to take away and put in our next town plan is A: Get as many of our people in one town as we can. B: Get everyone in groups, have standing orders for what everyones job is so we're the most productive every day. C: Ration water from DAY 1, and hold everyone to it.


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Baggi



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The storms hit there so frequently that they eventually abandoned the zombie zoo because it became to difficult to maintain.


I couldn't find anything past day 24, but I never saw them abandon the zombie zoo.

What do you mean?


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Baggi



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As for them bringing home defensive items every night we need to get real about that. We don't have any real control over what we find when we're out scavenging unless we can all hit the furniture stores. Beyond that it's completely random and we can't plan on having every one bring one home every night.


I agree with you that we cannot plan on having everyone bring back 1 every night.

On the other hand, I disagree with you that we cannot have control over it. We can.

Look at the gate enter and exit messages. When you see "X has left the town" and then "X has entered the town" a short while later, that is, in my mind, a complete wasted AP trip.

What I mean is, if you get out there and stay out there every night for about 10+ hours auto searching, you're much more likely to find a defensive item than if you make a quick trip out and then come back in.

We have a lot of zones on our map that are not depleted and have never been depleted. All of our corners are ripe for the picking.

On the other hand, their map was completed depleted several times and they kept depleting it.

That's the trick. If you do not deplete your map, you're losing items. Period.

We need to figure out a way to deplete out map and keep depleting it every single time a storm hits. That's how you win this game. If you do not deplete your map, you leave valuable resources out there.

Also, one other thing. Ultimately, a scavenger hero would get more items out of zones than any others. We don't have a lot of scavengers.

If we could figure out a way to utilize scavenger heroes better, we'd have more of them, and then we'd have a better chance. Instead, we're playing a lonely game (Or loner game) and this leads many of us to play Guardian instead.

I think that's a mistake.


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GromSC



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can't win the game baggi.
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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GromSC wrote:
you can't win the game baggi.


Joshua wrote:
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


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Ganthar



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggi wrote:
Quote:

As for them bringing home defensive items every night we need to get real about that. We don't have any real control over what we find when we're out scavenging unless we can all hit the furniture stores. Beyond that it's completely random and we can't plan on having every one bring one home every night.


I agree with you that we cannot plan on having everyone bring back 1 every night.

On the other hand, I disagree with you that we cannot have control over it. We can.

Look at the gate enter and exit messages. When you see "X has left the town" and then "X has entered the town" a short while later, that is, in my mind, a complete wasted AP trip.

What I mean is, if you get out there and stay out there every night for about 10+ hours auto searching, you're much more likely to find a defensive item than if you make a quick trip out and then come back in.

We have a lot of zones on our map that are not depleted and have never been depleted. All of our corners are ripe for the picking.

On the other hand, their map was completed depleted several times and they kept depleting it.

That's the trick. If you do not deplete your map, you're losing items. Period.

We need to figure out a way to deplete out map and keep depleting it every single time a storm hits. That's how you win this game. If you do not deplete your map, you leave valuable resources out there.

Also, one other thing. Ultimately, a scavenger hero would get more items out of zones than any others. We don't have a lot of scavengers.

If we could figure out a way to utilize scavenger heroes better, we'd have more of them, and then we'd have a better chance. Instead, we're playing a lonely game (Or loner game) and this leads many of us to play Guardian instead.

I think that's a mistake.


I do agree that we have some very minor control over increasing the odds of us finding defensive items. The main problem with depleting our corners is it's a 28 AP trip round trip to our most northern corners. Perhaps we could organize some Shadowclan groups to start working our way towards the corners and have the people who go out along take care of the replenished zones that happen each night? Right now we're barely depleting the new zones that arrive. I do agree that some of this is people not staying out long enough. Petr today was a good example he did one loop and came back to town. Even if you find a defensive item you should stay out so that you can have the chance to find another one and some one else can bring it in.


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Baggi



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GromSC wrote:
you can't win the game baggi.


You can't win the game! You can't!

I, on the other, can! And I will!


Muahahahahahaha!


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Azh
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of it depends on the people playing. We have a lot of non-scavengers in town. I suppose we could build the Cremato-cue and Gallows early and try to force people to go out and scavenge. Would be an interesting strategy to try!

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Hin



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if nothing else we should get the ccq quick to eat the idlers...
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Ganthar



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that we should build it sooner. Potentially we could have gotten food from the 9 people who've died already.

I also think we should get the predictor early in our next town as well. It's been an invaluable tool that lets us build up defense for the next days defense.


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Khasha'an wrote:
Kuuk'agh wrote:
Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
Meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. Mmmmmm, I love it. In fact, I'm going to eat some beef right now. HOOWAH!
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watarg



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ganthar wrote:

I also think we should get the predictor early in our next town as well. It's been an invaluable tool that lets us build up defense for the next days defense.


Don't forget, the predictor uses a nut & circuit board. I think we did the right thing to get defensive focus first, and the occasional nut defense before the predictor. I don't think it would have helped that much getting it any earlier than we did.

The thing to remember is that there is a component of luck: building placement and type, storm placement, objects. We didn't find our hacksaw until something like Day 12. We also had absolutely awful storm placement in areas without useful buildings.

Things we can improve upon:
1. having more clan and less weak links. We could have easily hung 3 players for their selfish play. One of them did a suicide outside town, but not after we had saved his bacon a few times with heroic rescues and drugs, and him wasting a tonne of water on "killing zombies for 'chievs".
2. better coordination.
- we lost a day of scavenging on one of the weekends because we couldn't arrange a time to meet up to head out.
3. our new players getting more familiar with the game
- Lamentation hopefully will not use up a mattress for his slumber party next time.

I'm still not quite convinced the "zombie zoo" idea is that useful. It takes an awful lot of APs to maintain, and a lot of that area will be depleted.

Definitely early scavenging, search tower is extremely important. I still like the watchtower 2, search tower 5, defensive focus 5 start. Any feedback on our scavenger/guardian balance? More scavengers? 50/50? Any feedback on our early builds?


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Ganthar



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah when I say early I am thinking day 5ish.

I am not sure watch tower 5 is worth skipping defensive upgrades. The structure that gives us free water weapons is huge and we should build around day4-5.
Search 5 tower 2 and def focus five turned out to be a good order.
I found as a scavenger I'm getting much better loot than I did before I became a hero. While we don't need a ton of them having 2 or 3 in a town would be nice.


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Khasha'an wrote:
Kuuk'agh wrote:
Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
Meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. Mmmmmm, I love it. In fact, I'm going to eat some beef right now. HOOWAH!
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Azh
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a new town ranked #1. Interestingly enough, they only lasted 27 days, but their score was over 1000.

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