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Some questions for SC, from a non-member

 
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Parhelion



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Some questions for SC, from a non-member Reply with quote

Well, I've got some questions! I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been mulling over joining SC ever since it first popped up on Landroval.


I've been really wanting to see an all-IC MP clan/tribe, and Shadowclan's definitely caught my interest. I've come from a 12-year background of strict roleplaying environments, and am actually NOT used to OOC of any sort while I'm in a game, so LoTRO's intermingling of roleplayers and non-roleplayers has been something I've had to become adapted to.

I see SC a LOT in-game, so that tells me it's got a lot of support and active people. It has the makings of everything I'd want in a clan, but there was something that put up a red flag for me while reading through the intro material on the LoTRO boards.


Namely, it is this line that gives me pause:
"... Characters that become traitors to Shadowclan are treated very poorly, and their players are prohibited from rejoining Shadowclan. ..."

My first, and most important, question is, does this mean that if I were to make a character and join Shadowclan, but at a later date leave SC with the character in an in-character fashion to carry out in-character plans, would I recieve any sort of OOC animosity and be banned or put on a "communal ignore" as a person?

Would my character be ICly ignored and/or excluded from any future RP events that may occur between SC and non-SC members in an OOC fashion? (i.e, "Hey, she quit Shadowclan. Don't acknowledge her!") This is not the same as being treated poorly, hated/despised, hounded, or ignored through roleplay.

The details of my questions are important -- I believe in a VERY strong separation of IC and OOC, and I've learned to avoid groups that try to erase that dividing line by enforcing OOC consequences/rewards for IC actions (and vice-versa!).

Third question: Does the SC allow roleplaying outside of its clan, i.e, will it acknowledge other characters that are in RP mode, particularly those making an obvious effort to be lore-accurate, EVEN if they are not a part of the clan?

Would the SC acknowledge other all-IC tribes and be open to even sharing storylines with them, if any open at a later date?

Members are expected to be IC at all times. I've seen many people appear to be roleplaying on the global channels, however, such as OOC, and wonder if this is just enthusiasm for the clan or is it required?

What's an example "event" that occurs in SC, if any?

What belongs to SC, stays in SC. If I get an OOC friend, am I prohibited from playing or questing with him, including sharing loot that I've earned myself, especially during off-hours?

If I see a newbie, I'll jump him like he's the last pizza on earth. That is to say, I will always set aside what I'm doing to help a new player, even if they do not roleplay, and even if there's something going on. What is SC's policy on this?

Anyhow, I'll greatly appreciate any responses I get. Even if SC does not turn out to be the place for me, it looks great and I'm glad to see an effort made to put RP in the Ettenmoors.

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Snurk



Joined: 07 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Some questions for SC, from a non-member Reply with quote

I'll try and take a chunk out of this...

In my days of playing, there have been very few IC reasons to leave the clan. As for traitors, yes, I believe that they are shunned both IG and OOG (not necessarily as zealously) as traitors are prohibited from joining Shadowclan in any other games, but I could be very mistaken. However, this is all moot if you never advance to Grunt rank or higher (this is the point at which you blah your oath to the clan). Additionally, traitors are not ignored, they are deeply (IC) hated, despised, spit upon, and klomped/sparred.

Yes, we try to interact with other reasonably minded roleplayers (read: non-thee-and-thou-ing orcs), no matter their tribal affiliation. We believe that roleplaying fosters communal development and cooperation, both of which are important in our eyes. The Yew Militia and other RPing organizations we have interacted with in the past are the testament to this fact.

The clan is all about sharing, but sharing with others in the tribal community is our major philosophy on the communal aspect. Your clanmates should come before nubklan, but this does not mean that you should always forsake the needs of potential recruits and/or allies. Questing with a nubklan friend is fine, giving them all of your items, money, and other valuables is definitely a no-no.

We haven't had any major planned events in this branch, yet (that I know of). However, scheduled events are a staple in any Shadowclan branch, as we have regularly scheduled Warboss/Wargoth Klomps (varies from branch-to-branch, but all clannies show up to watch the grunts duke it out for leadership positions), boot kamps, and the like.

Helping out new creeps is a very good potential recruitment tool, and even if they don't eventually join the clan, they'll always remember that back in the day, a really funny group of orcs speaking a weird language helped them find their footing in the game. However, clan-wide events and the like supersede this most of the time.

Hope this answers some of your questions, but you might be ble to tell that I'm not really any of the branch leadership, either IG or OOG, so my vague explanation of policy might be better defined by one of the higher-ups.

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Crag



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The harsh treatment of traitors spawned from UO where the game mechanics allowed us to treat any traitor, if found, like the turncoat he/she is. LOTRO is a little different, being we cant KOS you and steal your gear because you decided to betray the clan.

Keep in mind that we are orcs!


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Parhelion



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, that sounds like the spirit of storytelling was put aside just to OOCly punish a player. I have the utmost respect for anyone who's honestly into RP -- even if they are my arch-enemy in-game. Both of these replies suggests that if I decided to take my character's story in a direction that didn't suit the players in this clan, I'd get treated like trash as a player. Sad

Anyhow, thanks for the quick responses. Hope to see you people in-game, and maybe we can get a few RP sessions out when the going gets slow.

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Kopis



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Some questions for SC, from a non-member Reply with quote

I had a fair sized reply to this but decided it isn't my place to address it. I'm not a member. !!

Don't join if you plan to leave even before joining.

No matter what you do. Play a spider.


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Bashel



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a spider who's new to SC, but not to LOTRO or especially to RP, I can say that I LOVE finding RP in unexpected places, and I will happily RP with anyone I meet, regardless of their affiliations.

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Gobblemoss



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Heh Reply with quote

The way I understand the traitor policy is that it was developed during UO days and based on two things: 1) SC is a communal type guild where members are expected to own all things in common and help clan first; 2) given this, a harsh traitor policy is necessary to deter people who might simply want to join us to "rank" up or get some other benefit knowing they will jump ship once their goals are met.

I doubt we will see many problems like this in LOTR. First off, there is no real incentive to get items, other than DP or selling them for silver, neither of which are that big a deal. Monsters have no equipment. What the SC tribe offers here is basically a friendly environment with like minded people. Monsters don't level. And you actually rank FASTER solo in LOTR MP than with a group, so no incentive to be PL'ed. I can't really see people joining us for any other reason than the cameraderie.

There is also plenty of time after someone joins to decide they want to leave, for IC or OOC reasons, no problem. The reaction we have is have fun and there are no repercussions. We have already had two probation members leave in LOTR Online with no problem. The issues each of them had, by the way, were one of them found RP'ing too much effort for his taste and the other didn't like the rule we have currently on not showing titles for non-leaders.

So I would say, the traitor policy is in there but it may be really an artifact from another era of MMORPGS when SC was young. LOTR Monsterplay is unique in MMORPG history as a super casual game experience and I don't really think we will have much issues like that here.

Bear in mind though, if someone plans a RP departure from the SC they will be getting a RP response! Especially for the followers of Sauruman or traitors to the Great Eye! *hiss*


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Gobblemoss



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Nah Reply with quote

Parhelion wrote:
Honestly, that sounds like the spirit of storytelling was put aside just to OOCly punish a player. I have the utmost respect for anyone who's honestly into RP -- even if they are my arch-enemy in-game. Both of these replies suggests that if I decided to take my character's story in a direction that didn't suit the players in this clan, I'd get treated like trash as a player. Sad


Remember a lot of these examples are from other games. I really can't see this happening in LOTR Online with us. We are pretty good I think at separating RP from OOC treatment.

Your orc may be treated like trash, but not the player! Depends on what the orc did of course.

Remember we are RPing evil rotten vicious monsters!


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Reitsuka



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The traitor policy is a nasty, little tradition that we, as a guild, haven't decided to rid ourselves of. It places emphasis on an ooc loyalty to the organization and, coupled with the typical policy of only allowing new characters within the guild, it also aims to insure that a shadowclan character is roleplayed from creation to the termination of the character or the branch. You're absolutely correct in viewing it as an OOC punishment, though it carries IC components as well.

It typically (WoW is a notable exception and I think we lost a lot of really decent players due to it) doesn't cause too much trouble, though I will admit that the ic/ooc boundary violation has always disturbed me. If you are worried about the ability to leave the clan at a later time, never take the grunt oath.

Having said all of that, I don't believe this policy belongs in LotRO at all, but I don't make the rules.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say that anyone actually tried to roleplay their way out of Shadowlcan in WoW. The main reasons for going traitor being, 'You guys aren't getting to XX instance fast enough for me' or 'I want to join the PewPewPewGuild' (both of which were actual occurrences)

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Reitsuka



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly, though I highly doubt it would have made any difference if they did. It just isn't a real option and new members shouldn't be under the illusion that it is. The only acceptable method of leaving the guild after taking the oath is to retire the character and never play it again, or delete it.
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Gul'Wur



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played with the clan in many games, and have never seen anyone leaving the clan in a well fashioned IC way without OOC reasons. Most leaving has been due to disgruntle about our rules, mainly with equipment and the fact that we usually aren't very competitive in general and rather enjoy having fun.

If you are actually planning on making it to grunt in LOTRO with us and then coming up with an RP reason to leave, I'd say that you are pretty weird. Why'd you want to do that in the first place? If you are just checking if the clan is right for you, you can join as a gruntee and spend some weeks like that and leave without any hard feelings.

OOC traitorness brings OOC and IC punishment. What IC traitorness brings, I wouldn't know, because I don't know any examples of it. Though in UO we had a "crisis" at one point of the clan dividing and a few orcs remained out of the clan for years while still interacting with us. They weren't labeled as traitors. I don't know what the official stance was though, but I believe atleast the old blakblud ligzr is still with us in some games.

In UO we had many cases of guys going traitor by looting alot of our items and starting to harass us around the fort (in a very OOC manner). This is the reason behind the policy.

Members are required to keep character all the time, also on the OOC channel. Persons in leadership position may brake this rule to recruit or answer questions regarding the clan. Personally I am IC in all games all the time, and after I quit UO I haven't broken character in any forms of communication. I believe that is the requirement. Who knows if you chat with your best friend over tells though, it's just up to you, because no one is there to enforce it. Personally I have a lot of animosity towards using acronyms for places, but it seems to be accepted in our branch in varg and spider speech.

Helping newbs is great! And there are usually always clannies who need help too. But if there aren't, SC doesn't require you to refrain from helping anyone. As long as you do this in character.


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Gorbag Rotmakr



Joined: 26 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm - actually I think the answer to your questions are simple.

Shadowclan has always been a very communal group, with a a open sharing of assets and a high degree of ethic towards helping others train and achieve in game goals. As others have pointed out here, traitor rules evolved in other games where there was a strong incentive for people to take advantage of that to "quick start" thier characters. I am sure you know the type with your experience in MMORPGs . . . . Wink

Additionally, I'd recall to you we are an immersive role playing group. I'd argue that we have a secondary purpose of trying to find an IC way of dealing with someone who had been in Shadowclan and then "went all Kewlio on us" - but this is just an opinion. The real reason is the first.

When we were setting up this chapter, we discussed dropping the traitor rules altogether as again has been pointed out by others there is way less incentive to join just to get shiney stuff as there IS no shiney stuff (thankfully! I personally loath "stuff-quest" games), and there is no leveling per se. I think the discussion here was tabled, but I don't recall any strong objections to removing the rule - it was mainly just left out as an explicit rule, assumed in some form, and addressed as part of our rank structure.

We have four ranks, as allowed by the game (we typically have more, but LOTRO limits us here). The inititial rank you join at is ALWAYS free to leave the clan with no consequences. This has been well established in other games, even those that have the issues we've discussed before. More importantly, you are never *required* to accept any promotion, so one could theoretically remain entry level for "life".

In fact, I believe our own Clangoth here in this server stayed low rank on his first chapter for years. We have no equipment, and we expect *any* character who is willing to practice leading clan groups - so there really isn't any tangible benefit to Clan rank here anyway.

We don't have a seperate "gruntee" rank here - it has been decided to roll that into "grunt". Grunt, Officer, and Leader would be the ranks that (if we end up having traitor rules) we would have them at.

If you ever left the clan as a first ranked character, our preference would of course be for "in character" reasons in game (however ooc your actual reason might be), and depending on that ic reason there would be no problem with you being considered a friendly (in fact we would probably treat you with special recognition - as we tend to do with others who have been in Shadowclan in the past and/or understand our ways).

I believe "Outside Friends" is your second question? You are always encouraged to group preferentially with Shadowclan, but unless there is a "mandatory group" (I'll cover "events" as your third question) you are never forced to. It is assumed you have a good reason doing an important mission for the eye (carrying chamberpots from the towers and such! Wink ). This is less true in other chapters, but here we MUST establish relations and learn to work cooperatively with the shardies - so we are always free to group as we care to. Just remember though - you are still expected to remain in character. (We had a similar situation on DAoC Guinevere - I used to periodically get outraged /tells from NON-ROLEPLAYERS telling me about this clanner or that slipping up in groups. It was funny how it got to be upsetting to folks who themselves werent RPers to hear a Shadowclan member break character! Laughing )

Events - we havent had a lot here yet. They are big on other chapters though, they tend to range from the bloodthirsty (exterminate all enemies in an area for two hours) to the organizational (boot camps, promotion ceremonies, clomping for leadership postions), to the purely recreational (drinkee fezts, fighting "just because", etc.). Before we were able to organize as a tribe, we used to run a "loose" event of MP on Sundays since SOME OF US *glares* had Free People characters higher than level 10 here Laughing For examples look at the calendar across the top, ours will no doubt be similar to those (keeping in mind we are still just getting organized).

If we do have any "mandatory" groups, they will be assicated with calendared events (and by the way, I'd mention this since it's important to ME and my RL commitments - you are never *required* to log on for events).

If I missed anything, remind me and I'll follow up.


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Gorbag Rotmakr



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just reread some of the other responses (still a bit groggy, it's early! Laughing )

Going back to DAoC Guinevere (which was more like this game than UO, WoW, or even DAoC Mordred) - I actually ended up being picked out by another player as his "arch-nemesis" In Character (does anyone who played on Guinevere remember the grumpy stunty Mourginn? Har!)

It was a good example of ic animosity with ooc mentoring and cooperation on a wide variety of fronts. I can even recall one time during a full out relic raid having us both drop out of our respective raid groups (he dropped from a raid he was LEADING Wink ) just to fight a duel (the only mechanism available for people on the same faction to fight with each other) deep behind enemy lines. Come to think of it, Mourginn was a bot over the top! Rolling Eyes


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Grubdug



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorbag Rotmakr wrote:
I just reread some of the other responses (still a bit groggy, it's early! Laughing )

I can even recall one time during a full out relic raid having us both drop out of our respective raid groups (he dropped from a raid he was LEADING Wink ) just to fight a duel (the only mechanism available for people on the same faction to fight with each other) deep behind enemy lines. Come to think of it, Mourginn was a bot over the top! Rolling Eyes



Those were good times. Cool


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Gorbag Rotmakr



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubdug wrote:
Those were good times. Cool


<sniffs the air suspiciously, hands tightening on his o'ligz>

Laughing


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Kurghaash



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In answer to the original posters questions:
Expectations of Clan Members (ALL OF THEM)

Traitors are ex-members that reached Grunt rank, took the oath to be Shadowclan forever with that character and DID NOT delete that character when leaving the Clan kinship. The character name will be remembered and reviled. A person making grunt rank KNOWS that this deletion is expected of them before being promoted. We choose not to associate ourselves with PLAYERS who so easily break their word, hence the prohibition from becoming Clan again in other games as well.

All characters are expected to Roleplay at all times and ONLY in /tells speak out of character. The OOC channel in LOTRO is another thing altogether as it is routinely used to report Freep positions, give orders to groups working together and other IN GAME stuff. It really can't be considered truly OOC for the Monster Players.

Events for the Clan in LOTRO would be Bootcamps where we teach the new players how to speak, to follow orders and typically finish up with an attack on a target sure to get us all killed. Blood and Glory!

Clan members are expected to help other Clan members. By grouping with them for speeding along quests and item gathering as well as protection from the viscious tarks. Any Clan member that avoids his mates in preference to Non-Clan is not following our precepts of putting Clan first above all else. This does not preclude a member from working with non0members, just to preferentially include our members in groups and raids. Sharing of loot is expected within the Clan, outside it is questionable unless you obtained the items while grouped with the non-clan. Another example of how little we clan think of material goods and focus on the meaning of what it is to be Clan.

Shagrut Burzumishi <me hab me eye un latz! Member dat de Graat Eye wadchin uz! Clomp'n agh servin de Burzgothz will am wad mayk uz Clan!>

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Gorbag Rotmakr



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd add that on OOC we don't speak OOC (hence the reason why we should be using /regional instead)

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Bashel



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I sometimes speak in /ooc when I mean to be speaking in /regional. I gotta be more careful with that.

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Tor'Kak1



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Some questions for SC, from a non-member Reply with quote

Parhelion wrote:
Well, I've got some questions! I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been mulling over joining SC ever since it first popped up on Landroval.


I've been really wanting to see an all-IC MP clan/tribe, and Shadowclan's definitely caught my interest. I've come from a 12-year background of strict roleplaying environments, and am actually NOT used to OOC of any sort while I'm in a game, so LoTRO's intermingling of roleplayers and non-roleplayers has been something I've had to become adapted to.

I see SC a LOT in-game, so that tells me it's got a lot of support and active people. It has the makings of everything I'd want in a clan, but there was something that put up a red flag for me while reading through the intro material on the LoTRO boards.


Namely, it is this line that gives me pause:
"... Characters that become traitors to Shadowclan are treated very poorly, and their players are prohibited from rejoining Shadowclan. ..."

My first, and most important, question is, does this mean that if I were to make a character and join Shadowclan, but at a later date leave SC with the character in an in-character fashion to carry out in-character plans, would I recieve any sort of OOC animosity and be banned or put on a "communal ignore" as a person?

Would my character be ICly ignored and/or excluded from any future RP events that may occur between SC and non-SC members in an OOC fashion? (i.e, "Hey, she quit Shadowclan. Don't acknowledge her!") This is not the same as being treated poorly, hated/despised, hounded, or ignored through roleplay.

The details of my questions are important -- I believe in a VERY strong separation of IC and OOC, and I've learned to avoid groups that try to erase that dividing line by enforcing OOC consequences/rewards for IC actions (and vice-versa!).

Third question: Does the SC allow roleplaying outside of its clan, i.e, will it acknowledge other characters that are in RP mode, particularly those making an obvious effort to be lore-accurate, EVEN if they are not a part of the clan?

Would the SC acknowledge other all-IC tribes and be open to even sharing storylines with them, if any open at a later date?

Members are expected to be IC at all times. I've seen many people appear to be roleplaying on the global channels, however, such as OOC, and wonder if this is just enthusiasm for the clan or is it required?

What's an example "event" that occurs in SC, if any?

What belongs to SC, stays in SC. If I get an OOC friend, am I prohibited from playing or questing with him, including sharing loot that I've earned myself, especially during off-hours?

If I see a newbie, I'll jump him like he's the last pizza on earth. That is to say, I will always set aside what I'm doing to help a new player, even if they do not roleplay, and even if there's something going on. What is SC's policy on this?

Anyhow, I'll greatly appreciate any responses I get. Even if SC does not turn out to be the place for me, it looks great and I'm glad to see an effort made to put RP in the Ettenmoors.


No worries on the length of the post, I get windy myself sometimes Wink . Now, some have responded, and here's my point of view on the points you brought up. Also, if you decide to join us, welcome to the clan. And might I ask what your character(s) names are? This so I know who in the game I have seen from here.

Now, down to some more specifics.




Parhelion wrote:
My first, and most important, question is, does this mean that if I were to make a character and join Shadowclan, but at a later date leave SC with the character in an in-character fashion to carry out in-character plans, would I recieve any sort of OOC animosity and be banned or put on a "communal ignore" as a person?


My first thought would be if your in character why would you leave the clan? However, if something like this were to take place, and a proper rp backstory could be presented to clan leadership, let them decide if the character could come back once their plans were taken care of.


Parhelion wrote:
Would my character be ICly ignored and/or excluded from any future RP events that may occur between SC and non-SC members in an OOC fashion? (i.e, "Hey, she quit Shadowclan. Don't acknowledge her!") This is not the same as being treated poorly, hated/despised, hounded, or ignored through roleplay.


See #1 first. If the leadership allowed one to leave under your scenario, then this should be a no. This should be a no anyway, but would happen more along the lines of "nub blah tu dat fork." You might also get several requests to spar to teach a fallen kub a little lesson. But it should be all in character.


Parhelion wrote:
The details of my questions are important -- I believe in a VERY strong separation of IC and OOC, and I've learned to avoid groups that try to erase that dividing line by enforcing OOC consequences/rewards for IC actions (and vice-versa!)


I agree. And most of SC does too. However a few in the past have not been able to seperate the lines, sometimes it's just an annoyance, other times it's just plain frustrating. But with any large RP guild, this will happen. And SC has gotten pretty large since it was formed in 1997. From what I have seen thus far with the leadership in this branch, this will not be a problem.



Parhelion wrote:
Third question: Does the SC allow roleplaying outside of its clan, i.e, will it acknowledge other characters that are in RP mode, particularly those making an obvious effort to be lore-accurate, EVEN if they are not a part of the clan?


Of course. Roleplaying only with ourselves would get pretty boring after awhile. Very Happy We have always tried to RP with other groups, in every game we have played in. From the Yew Militia in UO to, well, we haven't found anyone yet in this game. Smile



Parhelion wrote:
Would the SC acknowledge other all-IC tribes and be open to even sharing storylines with them, if any open at a later date?


we have in the past, I don't see why we wouldn't here.



Parhelion wrote:
Members are expected to be IC at all times. I've seen many people appear to be roleplaying on the global channels, however, such as OOC, and wonder if this is just enthusiasm for the clan or is it required?


I do this quite often. However, I use the OOC chat in the game as an IC chat forum. I don't seperate the two. I will blah owr blah in any chat channel and even in Tells. With the way these all work, it's a pain in the.... well, behind to switch between raid, regional, kinship, fellowship and ooc chat channels while also fighting off tarks. So to save the precious few nano seconds for me to type /regional I just type /ooc and blah away. Not to mention most people not in the clan are used to seeing all the Moors traffic in OOC, it would catch their eyes wen sumash blahs lyke dis yn der. Den dem gu, wud da skah wus dat?!?! Wink



Parhelion wrote:
What's an example "event" that occurs in SC, if any?


We haven't had many in this game yet, as this game, at this time, it's rather hard to get an even together. The only event I can recall were for my grunt test, when a handful of us went and clomp'd lizziez south of Isen. After that we held our first lineup, and elected the in game leaders via vote and a clomp. Future events will include scheduled hunts, either against monsters or freeps, keep retaking (when they finally get taken for awhile) and other events that will emerge once Turbine gets the Monster play side fleshed out better. I would imagine if an orc wanted to be adopted by an older orc one could set up a ceremony with clomping afterwords. (I just want Turbine to allow us to drink. I wanna get sloshed and charge some keep!!!!!)



Parhelion wrote:
What belongs to SC, stays in SC. If I get an OOC friend, am I prohibited from playing or questing with him, including sharing loot that I've earned myself, especially during off-hours?


So long as your not out of character with your friend, and you don't share the resources that the clan shared with you, have fun! As a member of the clan, resources are communal. If someone needs a resource to turn in a quest, we share. If someone in the clan gives you a resource, please don't give it to someone outside the clan.

Parhelion wrote:
If I see a newbie, I'll jump him like he's the last pizza on earth. That is to say, I will always set aside what I'm doing to help a new player, even if they do not roleplay, and even if there's something going on. What is SC's policy on this?


If your an SC member, and on an Orc character, you must help them in character. If they can understand our blah (you know Orcs must use our Shadowclan Black Speech, spiders and wargs may speak westronese) I see no problems helping kubbies. Heck, if I am on send me a shout and I will help too. (hopefully I'm not leading a Raid or doing anything important like.... sadly, being the Wargoth, I can't just drop my troops and show a kubbie how to take a few blows on the chin. Wink ) Heck, we have even set up Grunts before that were Gruntee or Kubbie trainers. They took to teaching new Orcs the ways of the clan and the new lands they were in.

Parhelion wrote:
Anyhow, I'll greatly appreciate any responses I get. Even if SC does not turn out to be the place for me, it looks great and I'm glad to see an effort made to put RP in the Ettenmoors


Thanks for coming over and looking us up. Let us know who you are in game so we can blah ug. Even if SC doesn't fit your playstyle, then perhaps you will get into a clan that matches you. Then we can have some events! Very Happy


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Parhelion



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, it's been a long way coming since I last looked in!

I've gotten a whole mix of opinions from clan members on this topic, and it's given me a much better feel for things.

The truth is, I have -no- experience with MMOs. The games I've played on (mostly one particular perma-death MUD or throughout a chat community) never had the issues like the ones described from UO. The reason I had such a problem with it to begin with is that I HAVE joined groups with very similar rules, and every time it ended in a horrible, stressful mess.

What it boils down to, is if I were to join and then decide to leave for whatever reason, I want it to be good terms. If it's gaurenteed that it won't, there's no need for me to put in the time into something that, while fun then, I knew was going to end badly.

I will get bored; it's a given. It may be 6 months or 6 years from now. Maybe I become too disgruntled with another player or some rule, or I want to go do something new with my character with other players. So long as the transition is realistic IC (and that comes with all its repurcussions), I still expect to be treated decently.

So, if I were recruited into the group, I'd make this promise:

My character, that is to say it's persona and history, are MINE; I will -NEVER- delete a character because someone else wants me to; being hostile towards me about it would only get you thrown on ignore and I'll start turning down your spar requests and treating you in like fashion. I will also NEVER play a character out beyond its own death -- but I demand a death that's entertaining and fulfilling, and not something thrown at me because it's required by some rule.

So, there you have it. I think if SC would have me, I would love to join; if not, we'll still get some RP done. Smile

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Blug'zug



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can join in Shadowclan right now and keep those same goals - just don't become a grunt. When becoming a grunt in Shadowclan, you swear a solemn oath to the clan. As long as you don't swear the oath (and therefore don't become a grunt) then you can leave if/when you choose with no hard feelings.

So come on, already, join us!

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Tor'Kak1



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Character Skills: Su meni me furgawd dem.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blug'zug wrote:
You can join in Shadowclan right now and keep those same goals - just don't become a grunt. When becoming a grunt in Shadowclan, you swear a solemn oath to the clan. As long as you don't swear the oath (and therefore don't become a grunt) then you can leave if/when you choose with no hard feelings.

So come on, already, join us!


What he said. Wink


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Grimnitz



Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add my 2 slug meats to the discussion, a point that was overlooked:


Lets say you make an orc, warg, whatever and join SC, get all hardcore, have a few laughs and then you get bored with the game/computer blows up/any of the aforementioned reasons you gave, dont sweat.

1) this guild was originally formed as an alt guild way back when as a side project that grew into the institution you see today. A hiatus for a week, a month, a year or even forever is not unusual. If you return after that and stay in character etc, thats fine. You just overslept :p

2) Just because you make Grunt in this branch doesnt mean you get it in the next branch. Ive played SC in 3 games now, and have had to blah an oath every time I committed to being a Grunt. In DAoC I had 2 characters that blahed the oath even, simply because I knew I was not going to quit SC. My characters may have taken some long naps though Wink

3) There is no attendance requirement or mandated activity level. The sheer "Orkiness" of being SC has proven more than sufficient to keep logging in to have some fun, after all, its what motivated these people to accept the strict requirements in the first place, and usually leading them to saying "This rocks my socks. These guys are insane. I wanna stick around witht hem for as long as Im in this game, and see what games they go to from here!"

4) Something in this formula MUST be working. The list of guilds in MMO trying to copy SC, or directly inspired by SC (including but not limited to the use of created language) is nearly endless. The list of those that actually suicceed as guilds without an internal meltdown is in contrast very VERY brief, and usually can be traced to a slacking of one or several of our rules.

5) The rules are not there to restrict. In fact, the severity of the rules, the expectation IC that a pomdung jumps to when a Nob wants someone else to scratch his butt, etc is the kind of character the people who read through pages and pages of rules, blah, naming conventions, testing etc actually is EXPECTING in the first place! The rules as is in fact LIVERATE the player in the sense of they know they will never want for cash or gear or whatnot, and this communism actually leads to SC in every game Ive seen to be some of the best equipped players in the game. This doesnt directly apply in LOTRO of course, but this communal economy and strict control of clan resources will lead to clanners having buckets of potions and poultices, lots of DP to buy skills with (as the farmables and collectibles are harvested like locusts in a wheat farm). And now that the "economic " pressures have been completely removed from your character, all thats left for you as a player to worry about is... well, PLAYING the game, and allowing yourself to be entertained by a bunch of drunk, cursing, nose picking, genocidal orcs. Its bliss.

Wear the tag as long as you want and dont Grunt, and youll be fine, no one will force you. Although if 4 years go by and you dont grunt by then, some orcs will ask questions :p

Now hurry up and join SC so I can have some pushdug to scratch my butt for me.


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Khargug
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saved thread for posterity - good discussion.

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