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Petition to Switch to Vanu
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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
Posts: 2028

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Petition to Switch to Vanu Reply with quote

Ok many of us have had nearly a week on TR Emerald, and I say it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. Time to switch to something else, time to go purple!

This week has reinforced my view that going TR was a bad choice for us, and without my prompting a good few others have voiced similar opinions, or made general comments to the effect that TR is bottom of the barrel. I suggest we switch to Vanu on Emerald, or Markov if we don't have any European players. We could at least give it a go for a week and see what players think.

To this date no one who voted for TR on the temp forums has come here and given us a good reason why joining TR was the best choice. If you have a good reason lets hear it.

With Vanu we will gain access to to the Magrider tank and their excelent MAX suits. Both of which give our BR6 players an opportunity to have a real impact on the battlefield with thier limited number of certs.

A fair few players like to snipe it seems, well to you, have you noticed how much more TR footzergs than the other empires? Just think how many more targets you get when you play as an NC or Vanu sniper.

Naturally a lot of SC players will want to play in a coordinated fashion where the bulk of us work closely together as a team. The best avenue for that (especially with lots of BR6 players) is to make an Armored Company, which is to say the empire specific tanks. The magrider is so much better than the prowler, it's just crazy to pick TR over Vanu in that instance.

If you agree with me, or even if you don't, now is the time to let your voices be heard. Leave it too long and we'll get too entrenched on TR Emerald to consider a move. I'm sure if K'dah sees a majority of players want to move over those that don't, we will move. So please speak up!


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Kursech



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur.

There's not really much reason for being TR. VS is like the Hibernia of Planetside. Fun and interesting if a little on the fruity side. TR is like Alb. A few decent players holding it together with inferior stuff, and a big zerg. Of course NC is Mid and jackhammer is the pre-nerf zerker d00dz spamming evernight or whatever it was 1 or 2shotting everyone pretending they have l33t skillz because they can run around pressing one button.

Or to put it another way, TR is like WoW alliance. Red with a crapload of people who think they are Legolas. VS is the horde, purple with orcs and laser guns.

I'm not really sure where I was going with all that, but I definately think VS would be better.

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Lhakh



Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't played VS at all, but I've not been overtly impressed with the TR equipment options. Count me in.

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Kursech



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Naturally a lot of SC players will want to play in a coordinated fashion where the bulk of us work closely together as a team. The best avenue for that (especially with lots of BR6 players) is to make an Armored Company, which is to say the empire specific tanks. The magrider is so much better than the prowler, it's just crazy to pick TR over Vanu in that instance.


To expand on this a little...

Alot of people like being the underdog, whether it's population-wise or equipment/class-wise or whatever. However, right now in Planetside there isn't really much of an underdog. TR is slightly weaker all-around compared to VS/NC, but only slightly. The main reason IMO is the prowler being weaker than the other two tanks. Because of this, TR has problems with vehicle warfare because TR fields far fewer tanks because prowlers get killed. This causes TR to field more bfrs than NC/VS to make up for it, which means TR as a whole needs higher BR to compete outside.

That's bad for us, because like Xorv said the best bang for our buck would be armor. I've been in a TR armor outfit and we were constantly destroyed by VS/NC armor not by any fault of our own. We only held up against them with biffers.

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Vorgak



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in favor of switching factions, but not servers. Even if we do not have any Euro's playing at the moment, it's only fair to leave the door open to them should they want to join us, while providing the rest of us a server we can have a decent connection to. .
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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a pain in the butt to get to BR6 and now you want us to scrap our characters?

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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It was a pain in the butt to get to BR6 and now you want us to scrap our characters?


It takes maybe three decent play sessions to get to BR6, I have played I think four times and am nearly BR9. If this Branch's life span mirrors Planetside Reserves we have 12 months, what's a weeks play to that?

Also its not like gaining BEP is a chore, unlike other MMOs you gain exp from playing the end game not slaughtering 20000 rodents.


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Laghed



Joined: 23 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am enjoying TR and their inferiority...But, I like playing the underdog.

I


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Zrug'Pug



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does seem when TR go up against Vanu, they die fast, unless TR have numbers

i think some of us will be reservist, and at br6, so is there a race that have better equipment for inf. and MAX?


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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
does seem when TR go up against Vanu, they die fast, unless TR have numbers


Pretty much the same against NC. Playing this week only time I saw TR wining was when they clearly outnumbered the other side, and/or TrX were out in force.

To Laghed and others that like to be weak... This is something I feel really needs to be addressed, it bothers me even more than our empire choice. Planetside is a pure competative PvP game, thinking like that doesn't belong here. I mean we're up against BR25 CR5 characters run by players that have been at planetside for years, and that's not enough of a handicap for some of you? We need to play to win, or just not play at all as far as I'm concerned. Let me put it another way, if we end up sticking with TR I'm still going to be here, but if we stick with TR because "the being gimp is good" attitude is prevailing here, I don't think I or many of the other competively minded players are going to stick around.


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Vorgak



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a compromise of sorts is in order? We could go NC and avoid the terran downfalls, while not picking up the uberness of the Vanu. NC seems to be the smaller of the factions on most servers from what I see....
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Kursech



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TR doesn't always need numbers to win, but it certainly helps...

Earlier today TR had a lock on 6 continents iirc, and were defending invasions on 3 at a time with less numbers. I was on Ish for a while when we had something like 28% to VS's 72% and they couldn't get a base on us. But every TR I saw was at least mid-teens with most being 23+ in br while alot of the VS were not.

TR really isn't that weak. It's minor things (like the prowler being too big and too slow and the mcg cone getting too big under fire etc). The problem is that this causes TR to need higher overall brs per person to really beat out VS and NC. This is not good for us if we don't plan on having an army of br25's.

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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vorgak,

There's many good reasons to pick NC, but I have a preference for Vanu over them so haven't gone out of my way to make a case for NC. However, if someone else wanted to make a case here for NC it wouldn't hurt to hear it.

The compromise isn't going NC rather than Vanu from TR. It's for those that are set on TR to sell that empire to players like me in terms we can appreciate. You have better odds of selling me a bag of cat poo than TR by saying it is weak and we like the colours. I want to see a plan where we as an outift with many reservists are going to be a competative force.

The alternative compromise is to move to Vanu, or maybe NC, and for those of us that want to move to come up with reasons why that will be good on the basis of whatever reasons people want to stay TR. I haven't heard too many of those reasons yet, at least none that make any sense to me.


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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I understand, we can have characters in each of the different teams on the same server, right? There's just a 'timeout' involved, however long that is.

If this is true, and the timeout isn't too long, then I have a solution:

We all create Vanu characters on Emerald and we be Vanu for a week.

At the end of the week, we all create NC characters, and we be NC for a week.

At the end of the NC time, we hold a vote. Everyone that has played with us and has been active gets to vote. We vote which of the three teams we want to be, permanently. Or at least until the next major balance patch.

We'll start being Vanu tomorrow. Assuming the timeout lets us timeout overnight.

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Zrug'Pug



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hrm...

so can you play a different race on the same server?

or...am i confusing something up...


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Verlgu



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switching to Vanu wouldn't bother me really. I've always loved how the magrider and their other vehicals can travel over water. And how their maxes have the jumping ability. Those things have always been what stick out as a real tactical advantage to me. All the empires have certain aspects that I like though. NC has the Vanguard, scat-max ,and the Jackhammer. TR has the mcg, cycler, and the burster. (i also love the colors and uniforms)
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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your plan for most part K'Dah, the timer to change empires is one of those things that seems to constantly change, usually downwards. It's definately not more than 24 hours, but I have a feeling it's a lot less than that now.

Something to add with your new selection process. It's not really going to resolve a lot if people are making their choice of empire based on wildly different criteria. I think a large point of us making this branch is to play together, Planetside is also a competative PvP game. So, more than just a vote I want to hear people's reasons for picking it, especially in regard to a plan for us as an outift to play together and to be competative. Keeping in mind we have a lot of players limited to BR6.

The choice made needs to be for the right reasons. I still don't know why many picked TR the first time round. If it's because they have higher BR characters there already, that's not a valid reason in my mind. Nor is superficial reasons like colour scheme, and choosing an empire specifically because it is weak is absurd.

If we have three reasoned arguments including a plan of outift structure/cert use for their emprie of choice, and we vote based on that I'll be satisfied with this process. Otherwise its only benefit is to give the completely new players an insight into the other empires.


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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I created a Vanu, on Emerald (named Kdarf), and went through the training - I'm now BR4 - all since my last post. I would have been faster but I played around with things some.

As soon as I was done with training, I tried to log back into my TR chracter. It told me I had 5 hours and 20 minutes to wait until I could. I'm guessing timeout is about 6 hours right now.

So, take a 6 hour break tonight guys, create a Vanu in the morning. We'll be Vanu till next Sunday.

-----------------------

As a side note, I'm not sure I'm going to like Vanu. Yeah, the max jumping is nice, but some things are too easy. The AA max has aircraft seeking bullets. You can purposefully aim away from the plane, and you'll hit it anyway.

And the AV max shoots something like radiation bullets. They keep doing armor damage for several tics after you hit. And they add up. So if you hit something 4 or 5 times in a row, it still keeps taking a LOT of damage even if it jumps around a corner or goes out of sight. And it does that to anyone/anything's armor - even infantry. Nasty. I can see now why I've heard that the kids play Vanu - it's so easy.

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Kursech



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lancer also has the shortest ttk of the av weapons (though granted it takes more skill to hit things with), it can be used somewhat effectively against every single target in the game including infantry at long range (though nowhere near as good for that as it was in beta and around release when it was better for sniping than the bolt driver), the pulsar is very accurate at range and can use the same ammo for both ap and normal shots, and the lash damage from multiple lashers against the footzerg...and I don't think I even need to mention the awesomeness that is the magrider's gun....yep, VS rocks Cool
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K'Dahbruh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xorv wrote:
The choice made needs to be for the right reasons. I still don't know why many picked TR the first time round. If it's because they have higher BR characters there already, that's not a valid reason in my mind. Nor is superficial reasons like colour scheme, and choosing an empire specifically because it is weak is absurd.

If we have three reasoned arguments including a plan of outift structure/cert use for their emprie of choice, and we vote based on that I'll be satisfied with this process. Otherwise its only benefit is to give the completely new players an insight into the other empires.


Xorv, people get to pick the reasons they vote for what they vote for. They don't have to justify their vote to you, and you can't disqualify some votes because you don't like why they voted.

We're trying to be as fair about this as possible. We're not going to eliminate reasons for picking sides people like. We aren't forcing anyone to play with us, and if we don't pick the side someone likes, they can choose to do whatever they want, play with us, play against us, go to another server and not see us at all. We won't hold any of those against them.

It's all for fun. People should pick whatever they think will be the most fun.

The only restriction we might make is people should weight their votes based on how long they think they're going to play. Be honest. If you think you'll drop this game in a week or two, tell us. If you've been playing this game all along and plan to keep playing it, tell us that too.

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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited in quote for those who don't read all the posts and take things out of context
Quote:
K'dah wrote:
I can see now why I've heard that the kids play Vanu - it's so easy.


Kids play NC, they like one shot kills and bright colours Wink

That equipment is good is NOT a bad thing, would you rather be using it or your enemy?

The Comet does less direct damage to targets per shot than the other two AV MAXes, the burn factor is partly what makes up for that. Anyway the Dev team is currently testing a patch that will increase AV MAX damage vs vehicles and other MAX suits (among other changes), so cleary they don't think the Comet as you used it is powerful enough. Taking the Comet outside and fighting vehicles is at actually a challenging role to take on, against other MAX uintits not so much.

As to the Starfire aiming: Pilots get a warning when you lock onto them, that's the one and realy only advantage the Burster has, they get no warnign until they are hit. Holding the target recepticle slightly off target in the direction the aircraft is moving is actually a technique I use for holding lock on with the Starfire. Sometimes holding it directly over them makes you lose lock more easilly, network lag, time for packets being sent and all that technical stuff is what I put it down to. In any case being strong against the most overpowered battlefield role in the game (Air Cav) is about the best selling point for Vanu I can think of after the Magrider.



Quote:
K'Dah Wrote:
Xorv, people get to pick the reasons they vote for what they vote for. They don't have to justify their vote to you, and you can't disqualify some votes because you don't like why they voted.


K'Dah I understand what your saying, but also try to understand what I'm saying. It isn't so much what Xorv wants, it's what's going to be good for the future of this branch. There's more issues in contention here than Empire choice, some including yourself have indicated an attitude that almost comes off as if you want us to be the loosers and fodder for everyone else in Planetside. That's an exageration, but from what I'm seeing not all that far off the mark. I want no part in a set up like that, as I'm sure do quite a few others. So, at the very least I want to hear why an empire is being choosen, because if its for stupid reasons I'll cut my losses here and do somethign else, but then maybe someone will actually produce a sane argument for playing TR and persuade me to change my vote.



Last edited by Xorv on Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Kzog



Joined: 30 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xorv wrote:
Kids play NC, they like one shot kills and bright colours Wink


Isn't your whole point that you will take your toys and go home if we don't "go purple!" because the VS has better weapons, making the above quote triply ironic?

Let's just split our character slots between the three empires and rotate weekends since it's obviously important to some of us.

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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We need to play to win, or just not play at all as far as I'm concerned.


Not all of us are concerned with winning. As long as I get some action and get to blow stuff up I don't really care if I win or lose; So long as I get to take somebody down with me.


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Xorv



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Kzog wrote:
Isn't your whole point that you will take your toys and go home if we don't "go purple!" because the VS has better weapons, making the above quote triply ironic?


Absolutely not! I'm taking my toys else where if I come to believe that the majority view and choices being made in this branch are based off an approach to PvP gaming that is incompatible with my own. There's nothing childish in that as you seem to be suggesting.


Also you took that quote out of context, it was a joke in response to K'dah's jab at Vanu being played by kids. As we all know, or should do kids play in every empire, and sadly many of the idiots who act like kids aren't kids at all. So, if your going to attack my position in this thread please find something better.

Anyway Kzog, do you have an opinion on what empire we should chose and why? I would be keen to hear it.


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Khasha'an



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also would like to add that I've not seen that many losing battles for TR anyway. Most of the battles I've been in were quite large and either at a stalemate or swinging in TR's favor.

Sure it takes a while to take two towers and a bridge, but it gets done and that's what counts.


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