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Black Orc Discussion
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Grazzak



Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 1231

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this link from Gurbak's post in another thread and thought it would be very useful here:

This link shows the various influence awards available to Orcs through the three pairings:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128538


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Gorgok



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
Gorgok wrote:
Pop hold the line and run straight


You have to stand still while using this ability.


I still don't see this anywhere. Finally fooling around my BO and it seems to be that Hold The Line lets me move and stays working...


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Mul



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are the BO at killing other players? I wanted to be a Choppa but what you going to do....Thought about BO but not really interested in weak damage output with heavy defense. Can two handed BOs do well?

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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mul wrote:
How are the BO at killing other players? I wanted to be a Choppa but what you going to do....Thought about BO but not really interested in weak damage output with heavy defense. Can two handed BOs do well?


From what I've experienced so far, by going 2-handed you go from low damage/high defense to medium damage/medium defense. I like the 2-hander at the end of the tier, when you often fight lower levels in the scenarios. In this case you can actually kill squishies if you don't get chain rooted/snared, and can survive pretty well if you have any kind of healing support at all. When I go 2-handed I spec full Brawler and stack mostly Str gear. When I start a new tier I try to switch to 1-hand/shield as soon as I get decent gear and respec to Toughest and stack Toughness and Str fairly evenly. It makes PvE almost unbearable solo due to how slow it is to kill anything, but it helps a lot in PvP when you are low in the tier.

From what I hear, in tiers 3 and 4 using a 2-hand is mostly about the skills you get (like Down Ya Go) and not about the damage increase (which is modest at best). Killing people is possible with a BO, but really not the main goal. After playing melee dps alts (WE, and Marauder in beta) I realized that there is no way that a BO will ever approach that damage output (and rightly so, since you have much higher survivability as a BO).


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Mlar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurbak wrote:

From what I hear, in tiers 3 and 4 using a 2-hand is mostly about the skills you get (like Down Ya Go) and not about the damage increase (which is modest at best). Killing people is possible with a BO, but really not the main goal. After playing melee dps alts (WE, and Marauder in beta) I realized that there is no way that a BO will ever approach that damage output (and rightly so, since you have much higher survivability as a BO).


Part of 1H / 2H debate is dependant on spec line. As a Brawler spec with 2H you can put out reasonable damage. The main current problem is the lack of 2H weapons. When i got my current 2H (49DPS) the best 1H were 28-30DPS(2H had a reasonable DPS advantage) since then i have replaced my 1H 3 times and at 31 have a 38.x 1H and hence the damage difference no longer worth losing the shield.

For playstyle either.

1. Protect the squishies from MPDS - More damage + down ya go is needed in this role since they generally try to ignore you.

2. Backline chaos - go for their squishies , you might get some kills but the main role is to be enough of a threat to get targeted so that your own MDPS can slaughter them unmolested (S&B tend to get ignored more)

Even when 2H you should always have a S&B set in your backpack for when pure tanking is more importent


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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though a comparable rank 2-hander will have a significantly higher dps rating than a 1-hander, it doesn't appear to translate to that much of an actual damage increase. According to the combat logs that have been posted it appears to be about a 10-15% increase in actual dps. That's because you're primarily just seeing an increase in white damage with the 2-hander. So you need to decide if you want to give up 20% chance to block for a 10-15% increase in dps and higher burst damage potential with a good crit. The higher your rank and the more you spec for damage, the better the damage advantage with a 2-hander. However, speccing for damage (Brawler mastery, Str and increased crit chance tactics) and using a 1-hand/shield also works quite well.

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Bluhg



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hit lv 29 couple days ago and respeced for waahg in the boss line. I tested it out for few hours in scenarios and was unimpressed by the damage (need to test it more later with int build).
I don't know if the debuff is stackable from different characters and that might boost dmg. Also if more shamans are useing corporal aoe dmg then in tandom this may be effective.
Also if I can find a bunch of int items I may test out its dmg with all int boosted items and see if that helps at all.

I then went and specced for 3 hit combo which I think actually hits more then 3 maybe 4-5. I have not noticed any crits in the dmg from it and it takes a few secounds (maybe 4-5) to fire off all of the swings. The dmg stays the same on all hits.
Not really sure if just useing skull thumper is better overall. You could possibly get off more moves and more dmg chance useing other skills when 3 hit is swinging. Plus the chance for crit dmg if you are pumping max str would be hard to ignore.

The way I see it is we have no real middle pure dmg ability (not wanting to kcockback) other then big swing and that is in a diferent line then brawler. If you are trying to min max dmg and do burst dmg then maybe avoiding trip em up and 3 hit might be better for higher dmg.

Just some observations I had and wanted to share.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh just respecced to Brawler the other night when I realized that I only had one core ability in the Boss line that was being boosted by spending my mastery points there (Follow My Lead). The other abilities were either higher level than I was (so I didnt even have them yet) or for two-handed weapons. I may look at the Boss line again when I pass level 30, but at level 22 its mostly useless.

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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respecced to Toughest when I entered Tier 3 and went 1-hand and shield again. Survivability is great (unless focus fired by 5 BW's, which happens more often than I would like). I'm at about 275 Str, 325 Toughness and 500 Wounds with gear. However, after playing some of the T3 scenarios I'm thinking that Brawler may be the best choice when you can get Down Ya Go, because basically your only chance is to knock people off of the ledges/bridges before they knock you off. It's more like Cirque Du Soleil than bashin in the T3 scenarios.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurbak wrote:
However, after playing some of the T3 scenarios I'm thinking that Brawler may be the best choice when you can get Down Ya Go, because basically your only chance is to knock people off of the ledges/bridges before they knock you off.


On Doomfist Crater I've had great success by going up to the platform, doing a quick knockback on a healer or ranged player who is standing too close to the edge, and then moving up to their bridge and blocking the path rather than trying to fight around the flag. If they knock you back from the bridge, then you're still up on the platform, and while you're blocking that bridge, you're slowing down their reinforcements, allowing your team to capture the point. And if you get two players there, you can completely block anyone from getting past.


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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
Azh just respecced to Brawler the other night when I realized that I only had one core ability in the Boss line that was being boosted by spending my mastery points there (Follow My Lead). The other abilities were either higher level than I was (so I didnt even have them yet) or for two-handed weapons. I may look at the Boss line again when I pass level 30, but at level 22 its mostly useless.


Boss line seems to be more of an end-game line rather than one to spec for leveling. It also would seem to be an amazing line if you have Marauders, WE's and Sorcs in your group, and you play the linebreaker role. If you are behind enemy lines with the Marauders and WEs your Boss skills will increase their armor and buff their Weapon Skill. Now if you also throw Save Da Runts on one of the mdps they will be really deadly. In addition, you can debuff Corporeal Resistance with Waaagh for the Sorcs. But for an all Greenskin line-up it would seem to be less desirable than the other Masteries.


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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm getting a bit discouraged with the BO in Tier 3. Between the long time-to-kill in PvE and the latency (target not in range) issues in PvP it seems like I'm always playing in slow motion.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurbak wrote:
I'm getting a bit discouraged with the BO in Tier 3. Between the long time-to-kill in PvE


I switched my tactics last night to use the one that increases damage on Big Slash and the one that gives Follow My Lead an extra DoT and I was tearing through mobs.

Having players be out of range is always annoying and always seems to be an issue with melee classes.


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Gormok



Joined: 27 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
Gurbak wrote:
I'm getting a bit discouraged with the BO in Tier 3. Between the long time-to-kill in PvE


I switched my tactics last night to use the one that increases damage on Big Slash and the one that gives Follow My Lead an extra DoT and I was tearing through mobs.

Having players be out of range is always annoying and always seems to be an issue with melee classes.


That DoT I always found helpful. Finishes off a Bright wizard if I fall dead.


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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had some seemingly good success using Hold the Line recently. I fire it off during a charge and then try to stay just ahead of our front line of tanks, moving around a bit to try and draw fire without pushing up so far that I'm out of range of the support troops. I've done this in scenarios and open field RvR as well as keep sieges. Hard to really tell how much of a difference it made, but we seemed to do better overall when I used this tactic. And its great that you can move around while using it.

I've also tried to work more on beating down the melee troops that get behind our lines and attack our runts. Sometimes they are annoyingly hard to kill (tanks especially), but removing that threat and distraction quickly helps re-estabilish the group's focus on the main bulk of the enemy rather than having everyone in the back running around trying to get out of range of the Witch Hunters.


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UnsGub



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
rather than having everyone in the back running around trying to get out of range of the Witch Hunters.


We are just pulling Witch Hunters OOR of their healers so you can kill them.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an FYI in case anyone wasn't aware, the Taunt ability doesnt cause extra area aggro like attacks will. IE, you can taunt a single mob out of a pack, whereas if you hit them with a thrown weapon, you would draw them all out. Some special mobs are linked and you'll draw them all anyway, but most of the time, taunt allows for single-pulls.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though the tooltip gives no info along these lines, apparently, Where You Goin' is a short-range AoE effect around the caster. No wonder it never seemed to work for me!

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Grubdug



Joined: 25 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hrrm...I use that quite a bit in scenarios...though I didn't ever realize it was actually an AoE effect. I never had it affect more then one target, at least I didn't notice it did. I have to pay closer attention...depending on how many targets it could possibly effect this could be a fairly powerful tool in the rigth circumstances like on a keep ramp or something alike.

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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just thinking about the collision detection in WAR. I would love to have the ability as a tank to shove my own teammates out of the way sometimes, especially in doorways and the ramps in the keeps.

Something along these lines:

Outta Da Way! - Pushes all friendly targets within 5 feet in a 90 degree arc in front of you back 10 feet.


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Kugmun



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there used to be an ability called "Outa Da Way" where a BO would throw a friendly behind his back. As you can see, it never made it to the game. I bet people abused it Evil or Very Mad
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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
Even though the tooltip gives no info along these lines, apparently, Where You Goin' is a short-range AoE effect around the caster. No wonder it never seemed to work for me!


Since I discovered this little tidbit of info, I've had much better luck using this ability. It's range is extremely short, but I've managed to use it effectively numerous times while guarding a postern door during keep assaults.


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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after hitting level 32 yesterday, I flew up to Kadrins Valley to join in on the PvP there. Lots of craziness back and forth and at one point, I found myself alone near a BO. After standing around for a couple of minutes, I realized that noone else was coming to help, so I mounted up and rode off down the road, immediately running into a level 35 Engineer who decided to attack me. He was dispatched rather handily. I never felt in any real danger. I looted his still-warm corpse and monuted up, only to have a level 40 Bright Wizard ride up and immediately hit me with a spell to drop me from my mount. The engagement again went my way, though I did have to throw up Da Toughest battle shout (I was using Da Biggest) and use a healing potion.

Neither of my opponents seemed to try very hard. I'm not sure what was up with the Engineer, but the Wizard seemed to be over-confident. I think he assumed that his DoTs would be able to finish me off, which they almost did, but he did very little to try and keep his distance from me, allowing me to beat on him pretty much the whole time (Hooowaaagh! for Tree'-Hit Combo).

I also had a tussle with Barab of the Mithril Warhammers yesterday (level 35 Ironbreaker). Pretty sure I would have beat him as well, though it would have taken a while. Unfortunately, a bunch of humans ran up and beat me down to 1/3 life while we were fighting. He yelled at them to back off (at least thats my guess as to what happened since they did stop), but by that time it was too late to turn back the damage they had already done.

Anyway, I guess my point is that although it can sometimes be frustrating to play a Black Orc in WAR, other times, such as described above, make the painful moments well worth it. The Black Orc seems to be a pretty solid class with quite a few options for customization, especially in regards to tactics.


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Kugmun



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to try the path of the warboss, but it looks to be a very level dependent spec, since you get all your skills for it at 39.

Azh, since you seem to indicate you are in the brawler path, how is it with a sword and board? I seem to be having a hard time forcing myself to use the sword and board, unless I am tanking.

The BO felt a lot more powerful in beta, but that was beta. I noticed they were slightly toned down upon release, or everyone just got better. Never the less, they are still quite solid in my experience, and I just feel a lot more confident with a BO around than a chosen. I can't comment on the elf tank, but it looks to be a more 2h inclined class.

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Grubdug



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the switch from 2H to Sword and Board at the mid 20's and never looked back. The increase in survivability is just amazing. The added damage of a 2H doesnt offset this advantage atm IMHO and I found the various observations about 2H's being broken and only adding a slight damage increase to be accurate. The only real drawback is that I loose my AoE knockdown since I dont use a great weapon anymore.

Stack strength even with S&B and the damage difference to a 2H wielder with stacked strength will be pretty small, especially compared to the huge damage mitigation effects you get with a shield.


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