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Black Orc Discussion
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Azh
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kugmun wrote:
Azh, since you seem to indicate you are in the brawler path, how is it with a sword and board? I seem to be having a hard time forcing myself to use the sword and board, unless I am tanking.


I'm usually a two-handed weapon person, but I decided to stick with one-hander and shield for WAR. I'm also kind of a generalist, beefing up all my stats across the board rather than focusing on just a couple, and using various offensive and defensive tactics. I am fully-specced in the Brawler line, and acquiring the Tree-Hit combo ability has made a huge difference in my damage output. It's still tough to kill someone by myself, particularly healers, but that ability gives me a way to dish out quick, significant damage, which can make a lot of healers panic. It's also useful for finishing someone off at low health.

I think overall, two-handed combat is kind of gimped for Black Orcs, since there are only a couple of attacks that require two-handers, and all the other attacks have their own base damage that isn't affected by your weapon DPS. But, you should play with whatever you have fun with.


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Granaak



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weapon dps affects all your attacks unless there are special BO attacks that are an exception to the rule.

Unmitigated damage for a skill = skill's base damage + (weapon dps x activation time) + (dps from stats x activation time)

*activation time for instant abilities = global cooldown so 1.3 or something like that

So 2hnder's will on average make a given skill hit harder just not by a huge amount. A lvl40 blue 2hnder does about 69.6dps so it's adding 90.5 damage to your attack pre mitigation. A lvl40 blue 1hnder does about 47.4dps so it's adding 61.6 damage to your attacks. You just have to decide if 30 more damage (pre-mitigation so it'll actually be less since mitigation is % based) per attack is worth giving up the 20-30% damage avoidance a lvl40 blue shield is going to give you.


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Kugmun



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eww...that makes 2h look rather weak, unless they start pumping some more 2h only skills or make the 2hs much better.

Better start looking for a sword and board to better my needs, when I get the chance Evil or Very Mad . I hate school

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Gan'Tungi



Joined: 23 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At R17 with all my points specced in Toughest, I love it. I find my level of survivability sickening, especially when I include potions into the equation. My ability to kill the hard targets is somewhat limited, but I can still take dow the squishie DPS pretty easily (Juggernaut is my favorite skill everrrrrr, nothing like seeing a Bright Wizard panic after you break his snare) and healers can give me issues. I battles a R18 Rune Priest for over a minute last night before the scenario ended. I just didn't have enough AP!

Speaking of which, the BO AP regen buff I think does next to nothing. : Mad

What kind of RP specs are out there for you others playing orcs? I was thinking about stacking STR and Toughness then leaving some on the side for Wounds.


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Kugmun



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Ave anther one can actually be quite dangerous, if used with the right combination of tactics. Currently, I am full brawler, using either Gork Smash with Stab You Gudder, or 'Ave Another One with Gork Smash. Both seem quite deadly, especially when you crit with Skull Thumpa, then you riddle your target with some nasty DoTs. Once I hit 30, I'm going to combine the two, which will be quite nasty for those who dare fight me.

I'm thinking for my brawler spec, I'm going to use this:
Kugmun's Brawler Spec

Once I hit 39 or 40 I may try to use this Boss Spec:
Kugmun's Boss Spec

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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Black Orc Discussion Thread Reply with quote

Grakhoar wrote:
In order of precedence, what do you think is the most important for a Black Orc sword and board tank in RVR? I heard that Willpower is important for tanks.

This is what I have read: Str>Toughness>Wounds>Willpower>Weaponskill>Initiative>Elemental Resist>Corp resist>Spirit Resist


What values are desireable for a lvl 40 RVR tank...i.e. is 700 elemental resist good?



I'm not sure why a Black Orc would really want to focus on Willpower. It doesnt seem like it would pay off enough. I've also been thinking lately that weapon skill is probably not especially useful either. We already have ways to break through armor via Wor Armor and Follow My Lead.

My main focus in stats are strength, wounds and initiative (via gems). Toughness also, but thats currently secondary for me. I seem to get a decent amount of toughness from equipment. No matter what your stats are, if you're focused by 5+ players and dont have one or more healers doing nothing but healing you, you're going to go down fast anyway. In most skirmishes, the Black Orc is not a primary target, so I try and either focus on being disruptive (IE, in the back attacking and silencing healers), or supportive (IE, staying near the main group, debuffing and attacking DPS that are going after our back ranks, knocking all foes away from healers, etc), and usually end up doing a little of both.

I generally use various tactic sets to define what role I'm taking rather than switching out equipment as some people do. If I find that I'm getting killed before I can do anything useful, I'll switch to a full-defense set of tactics. Or if I'm not getting attacked and I'm also not able to kill anyone, then I'll switch to an offense-oriented set of tactics.

I tend to steer towards a jack-of-all-trades type fighter rather than focusing on either defense or offense, so read my comments with that in mind.


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Grakhoar



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order of precedence, what do you think is the most important for a Black Orc sword and board tank in RVR? I heard that Willpower is important for tanks.

This is what I have read: Str>Toughness>Wounds>Willpower>Weaponskill>Initiative>Elemental Resist>Corp resist>Spirit Resist


What values are desireable for a lvl 40 RVR tank...i.e. is 700 elemental resist good? Is 700 wounds good for a tank?


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Gorgok



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
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Character Skills: ----- Gorgok: Sneeki Wompr, Gurguk: Sneeki Kiggr, Ojomrog: Teefn Mojo, Budrog: Drumdum

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stats really depend on what you expect to be doing, but i for general RVR would focus on Toughness, Wounds, and Resists all to about 40% mitigation (since thats where they get diminishing returns after the patch. Extra can go in Strength, Initiative or Weapon Skill as you see fit. Toughness loves getting hit by many targets using many skills and fast. The more the better it works, but against big hits from a single source spread out its pretty useless (like dungeon bosses).

For dungeons and bosses i would focus in this order Wounds, Toughness/Initiative, Strength. Resists can be whatever unless you really min/max and look up the stuff to see what the boss uses. Since toughness is pretty useless when hits come in 2-3k hp packages and only every few seconds, wounds is there to give you a buffer to get healed, initiate to cut down the chance you get critted. Toughness is useful up to the boss usually, and strength does raise block some, and damage, so not entirely useless. You could probably ignore initiative if you had plenty of wounds, and just hope you never get 2 5k crits in a row pounding straight through all your hp.

Unless you are stacking a whole lot of Willpower its complete garbage. If you really want disrupt up just stack gear with +% disrupt. You need roughly 1000 Willpower to get 20% disrupt.

Resists are simple, just mouse over and see what % mitigation you get.


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Granaak



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strength, toughness, wounds, initiative, and resists are really the only stats to worry about as a tank. Weaponskill could be argued to belong in the list as well. Willpower is 2nd only to Int as the most worthless stat for a tank.

Prioritize strength and wounds if you want to play offensively or toughness and wounds if you'd rather go defensive.


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Grakhoar



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
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Character Skills: Magical Salvaging, Talisman Making

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, these are my stats with my current equipment...almost level 40 with 4/5 annihilator gear...can't get that bodyplate but have plenty of helms and shoulder plates.

Let me know if anything sticks out I need to get upgraded.

STR 402
Tough 488
WS 319
Wounds 741
S. Resist 426
C. Resist 382
E. Resist 709
Block 19.7
Parry 7.0
Dodge 5.2
Disrupt 12.9
Armor 2986
Pen 23.3%

I play a little of everything off and def, ramming crew, oil dropper, charge in and try to break the line, smash the keep lord, skirmish with order


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Mlar



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For RvR you will want to increase Corp.Resist as it is a very common attack type (Engi & BWs).

With 2H equiped my stats are approx:-
(with 3 sent 2 anni, so i am getting 2*66 Str set bonus)

Str 650 (including +melee)
Tough 380
Wounds 940 (with tactic)
Init (13% to be crited)
C.Res & E.res 700-800
S.Res 500


For PvE i swap out jewelery etc to increase my wounds to 1080 and get init up more.This is then at the expense of Str. and some resists


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Gork



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Character Skills: Chop'n

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasnt going to post this untill I felt that I had found the best tank build for BO, and I now belive I have found it..

After playing around with a few builds I belive that for pure tank/surviablity a combination of Da'tuffest and Da''Boss is the best

First a little about Gorknok, Currently im rr49 so I do have a few points from renown gain. Also I stack ONLY tuffness talisman (current tuffness is 925 without any buffs) And last I have full Annialator gear. I have sacrificed a little bit of tuffness for str with some of my gear such as my guts plate it is currently the tuff/str T4 INF gutsplate. (I am still debating over using the Gutstrap of the stair wich has 47 tuffness ((the best in game as far as I can tell)))

First thing is all renown points put into tuffness...

This is my current build
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=5#0:0:13:8200:9:544:29:734:1705:503:1714::::606:607:1723:613

I use the Vanguard Big Choppa and the T4 INF renown shield.

Anytime I begin a pvp fight I use the two da'Boss spells first then I work around with anything else I need to do


With this build I am a parry/blocking dmg absorbing beast. I can self heal and absorb and just pound away. I mainly go after pure healers, WH, BW, SW, ENG. I can solo any tank that is soloing me but it takes forever and I stay away from WP unless to stop them from group healing.

But untill the changes this is by far the best tank build for a BO as far as I can tell...


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Khargug
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Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

side note [Re:] Gorknok or any others...

I happen to have 3 or 4 blue toughness talismans and 1 permanent toughness talisman that I keep on me so if you find yourself (or anyone else) wanting of one or more of these gems, you just need to let me know.

side note 2: Many of you know this, but it is always worth repeating. It's generally not a good idea to ask for permanent talismans on gear that you expect will get replaced.


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Mlar



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gork wrote:
I wasnt going to post this untill I felt that I had found the best tank build for BO, and I now belive I have found it..


But untill the changes this is by far the best tank build for a BO as far as I can tell...


What is your str,wounds,resist like with this?

It looks good for survivability and for putting presure on healers.
For better healer killing you are missing the +crit tactic and anti-detaunt.
WPs are the toughest healers to kill ( I would love to know what spec Kriestov is because he is almost unkillable compared to other WPs)

I am full brawler/ boss for anti-detaunt/ rest toughest , with 2H i sacrifice survivabilty for being able to burst healers down.

For talismans i am mostly + wounds with + resist and +str on items i can swap between RvR and PvE gear


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Azh
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there an obvious visual clue when someone detaunts you? I know that goblins will duck their heads, but I havent noticed anything in particular from other races.

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Mlar



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
Is there an obvious visual clue when someone detaunts you? I know that goblins will duck their heads, but I havent noticed anything in particular from other races.


Honestly i do not know,but the goblin ducking applies to their single target detaunt.They also (goblins) have an AE and a Tactic detaunt for which there may not be a visual clue. The marauder AE detaunt does not have a visual clue.


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Gorgok



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The blue !!! above your head is a detaunt. Much like the red !!! over a targets head is a taunt.

Only the shaman (of the gobos) has an AE detaunt, the SH does not.

WP also have an AE detaunt (and DoK do not) but Kriestov also has Guard on him nearly always that i see him... 2x 50% debuffs with the armor they get, wounds buff, etc... WP are hard to kill.


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Gork



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the tank build might be changing big time after this patch...

i was on test for only a few mins and found that the Vanguard Big choppa is now a 2hander (that you hold in one hand)

thats just the start


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Azh
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorgok wrote:
The blue !!! above your head is a detaunt. Much like the red !!! over a targets head is a taunt.


I guess I dont see that since I have spell effects turned off for others.


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Gorgok



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try one of the many addons that warns you of certain debuffs. I thought Aiiene made one, but couldnt find it, but i did find this: WhatTheDebuff

Customize it a bit to only show what you want and say it the way it makes sense to you, then you get warned when you are detaunted. There is probably a better one thats easier to configure (this one makes you do it in a text file apparently).

This is what i was looking for, Aura. Probably a much better solution, seems easier to use as well.


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Kugmun



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the changes, I think I'm also going to play around with specs for a bit. I'm still going to keep a brawl/boss spec, but going to need to adjust how much on each side.

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Gork



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kugmun wrote:
Looking at the changes, I think I'm also going to play around with specs for a bit. I'm still going to keep a brawl/boss spec, but going to need to adjust how much on each side.


the changes are not going to effect main spec with brawler/boss only Tuffness...

if they stay the current way there is no reason to do tuffness at all


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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone happen to check if Cant Hit Me does any damage now? If its the same amount as before but with resists now, its pretty weak... But if stats affect it...

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Azh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some random thoughts since patch 1.2:

I'm going to try and work on using Hold the Line more often. When Azh was smaller, I used it during charges quite often, but I've fallen out of that habit lately. With the general increase in damage across the board, I should get back in that habit.

Mastery respec will probably be similar to what I have now, max Brawler with the rest put into toughness. I'll probably keep the Puddle O' Muck Morale, Tree Hit Combo and Ya Missed Me. Cant remember offhand if I had other abilities or tactics from the masteries.

Gorknok told me last night that he's switched to a two-hander spec. Azh will stick with the choppa and board for the time being.

I'll probably alter my action bars a bit to change the focus of which abilities I use more often. Wot Armor was my most-used Step 1 attack, but using it repeatedly is much less useful now. I'll likely use Ya Missed Me more often (though its reliant on my having blocked an attack within the last few seconds). I like the damage on Big Slash, and the fact that it's AoE, but knocking back someone at the wrong time and/or triggering their Unstoppable buff too soon is a common occurence. Think I might try using Shut Yer Face more often (along with the tactic that increases its damage and decreases its cooldown). Looking at this last paragraph, it seems that it might be better for me to focus on DPS targets, since I can reduce their damage output and silence them.


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Gork



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched to 2h for a while to see how it works

currently this build

http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=5#13:8832:0:0:9:512:29:739:1712:734:1704::::608:607:1723:613


all my renown skills into STR V, wounds II, 2% melee crit, and wepon skill+str II

I use path of boss for 2 reasons
1 shut your face + can you hear me now
2 rock ard

I put away most of my annialator gear and used INF renown gear (to bad most of it was for defence and not offence....)

but here is what i think of this build

1. 2 of my skills (down you go) and (shut your face) hit every time on anything that is soft for 1100+ every time...

2. I have killed more people in the past day than i had in weeks with gorks post/pre defence build

3. If im not heavly healed i die like im a softy...

so in ORVR im about equal if i find a softy i champ challeng him he will die in about 4 hits, if i get dumped on and no heal im dead.

I do like it but i am not even a 1/4 of the "tank" i was pre 1.2

Azh do you have stop hittin da runts? 40 AP everytime you bellow = infinate AP...


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