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Azh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Shaman Discussion Reply with quote

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Xurmok



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me woz grukin dat der needed tu bi sum blah hir. Mi guin bi klompin den fixun shamun. Ur maybi me bi fixun den klompun shaman. Ash or da uddir.

Xurmok


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Kurghaash



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have some favorite shaman tactics or dirty tricks they want to share?

I like to keep my Gork power up to 5 by continuously casting the Ey, Quit Bleedin' on myself or anyone passing by. Then when I find a target to bash, I can cut loose with an instant Brain Bursta, followed up by a Bleed Fer' Me DOT/HOT and a Life Leaka DOT, then a Bunch o'Waaagh. If it is still standing I Brain Bursta it again and restart the Life Leake DOT if the target still has substantial life left, and Bleed Fer' Me when that HOT/DOT runs out.

This really worked well for me on a stuntie that was thinking I was an easy kill out in open RvR. I double dotted him and he began chasing me and after I dragged him away from his allies I turned around and caught him! He eventually ran when he saw I could heal anything he threw at me and I was slowly burning his health down. I chased him down and killed him with both DOT's and a final Bunch o'Waaagh. Made all those deaths in the Gates of Ekrund seem trivial!

Where to stand is always hard for me in a scenario. Am I better off as far as I can be from the front lines but still able to do damage and heal? Or am I too far from support and salvation if I get jumped back there? Do I stand up close, tug on a Black Orc's cloak for shielding (I know they have a skill that lets them take 50% of the damage delivered to me if I am close enough) and do my mojo from close up, but where I can be reached easily by the enemy, both ranged and melee? Skah'n Bright Wizards eat me alive it seems. Maybe a little of both depending on the makeup of the enemy force we are facing?

I find that having a macro /assist is most useful for me as a shaman. That way I can target the Black Orc leading the charge and then assist off of him to help DPS down his target while maintaining him as the healing target. This works best when that Black Orc knows who the important targets are to focus on.

In Clan groups we could easily have each Black Orc assigned a shaman for them to protect, who would be responsible for keeping that Orc up with heals and target off of them. Then those Black Orcs could all assist off of the Big Boss to get all of us on the same target which would go down pretty fast. I find that the "Ere We Go! damage buff is really only useful when you have multiple greenskins benefit from it, otherwise it is a waste of time to cast it.

Such organization would be very hard to organize in a PUG scenario but with our Clan discipline we should be able to do it easily in our warbands. The other lil gits with squigz could also be assigned a target to assist off of or be the target pickers themselves, calling out when they have a healer or other squishie in sight. Or we could even set up a DPS squishie killer at range group with squig headers and shaman working over the enemies backfield. All depends on how many of what class we have in our warband.

I know i strayed from the original question in this post but I do find that we shaman tend to be much better when working in a group or warband. Solo is fine and we are quite capable of it, but we really shine when we can team up and use all our talents.

Anyone else have some input?


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Khargug
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like doing just the opposite. I like maintaining my Mork power to 5 by dealing damage as much as I can so that my big heal becomes an instant cast. This allows me to keep my morale moving up to my bigger morale skills instead of always burning my morale. In scenarios I tend to hide in the taller bushes and try to avoid using my green ray of death which tips the enemy off to my whereabouts. I have been accosted by just about every class one on one and have used my max-Mork style of play to keep myself healed up to full throughout the majority of the fight until they die. Since I am also going Mork specc'd my healing will continue to improve but I must not forget to do damage attacks to work up my Mork waaagh.

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UnsGub



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kurghaash wrote:
Anyone have some favorite shaman tactics or dirty tricks they want to share?


Only things that matters so far is range, LOS, and somewhat targetting UI.

I can see people needing heals or damage done to them (focus fire target) but it is not possible due to range or LOS. Since those are not issues for melee they need to learn to be aware of them.

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Gronk



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes use Brain Bursta in long range standoffs but mostly I tend to avoid it since it takes so long to cast.

For melees I lead with Ere We Go for the 50 point damage add it gives the entire group's next attack (must be within 10 seconds). Then I hit them with Bleed For Me, Life Leeka, Bunch of Waagh and by then the timer on Ere We Go has reset and I start the cycle again.

Using Ere We Go regularly will significantly increase the damage output of your group.

When fighting casters I use Ey Quit Bleedin to get Waagh up to where I can nearly insta cast the You're Not So Bad action point leech as a lead in attack. I then hit them with the insta intelligence debuff followed by my melee attack sequence described above.

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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When chasing someone with a shaman you have 3 spells that work even in tier 1, the instant dot, the instant dot+hot and the channeled spell. Even while running the channeled spell will hit one time, which is plenty to start affecting the victim.

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Gurbak



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khargug wrote:
I like doing just the opposite. I like maintaining my Mork power to 5 by dealing damage as much as I can so that my big heal becomes an instant cast. This allows me to keep my morale moving up to my bigger morale skills instead of always burning my morale. In scenarios I tend to hide in the taller bushes and try to avoid using my green ray of death which tips the enemy off to my whereabouts. I have been accosted by just about every class one on one and have used my max-Mork style of play to keep myself healed up to full throughout the majority of the fight until they die. Since I am also going Mork specc'd my healing will continue to improve but I must not forget to do damage attacks to work up my Mork waaagh.


My play style is similar to Khargug. I prefer Mork-spec and will throw out as many DoTs as possible (you get a third with Mork spec) in order to build up Mork whaaagh for the near instant big heal when needed. At higher levels I don't even put Brain Bursta on my bar since there is almost always another spell that I would rather use. I will use Bunch O' Waaagh mostly to finish off or focus down opponents.

Regarding favorite tactics - I love throwing Gork Says Stop! on enemies that are trying to run by to get into their keep to defend. Twisted Evil


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Xurmok



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like running in front of the group for scenerios stopping 150ft from the conflict. As my team passes i start dropping the ey stop bleeding. I hit each and everyone going past with it if i can. Then drop the heal for 100 then hot (forgot name) on people in the fray. If I need a big heal I use it to keep a tankish type up.

I generally save the morale heal for myself in scenarios.

Im looking forward to healing for the clan. I think a shaman has to keep their dots/hots going on as many targets as possible. Atleast at lvl 10.

The 150 range is a great key. I have a 21 bright wizard and dont have any spells more then 100ft and fireballs and best dmg dot is only 80ft.

Xurmok


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Murgosch



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was about to give up my attempt at a shammie until I hit 8, everything and I mean everything changes at 8.. you get your instant heal, and your morale heal.

If you go Shaman stick with it until 8, you won't be disappointed.


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Blarg



Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of spec plans are most of you looking at long term?

How much does your spec in the healing path effect the amount you heal? One of the paths I was interested in ended up with something like 3 points in Mork, as most of it was in Green. Would my healing be terrible then, or is willpower really the main factor?

How effective are debuffs? I've been looking over the career builder stats given for spells, but debuff ammounts in particular really mean nothing having not yet played the game. Debuffing 150 intelligence for example could be absolutely crippling, or hardly noticeable, I have no way of knowing. I was interested in kind of a heavy debuffer role as the main theme of my shaman, but not if nobody will care once they're debuffed. Razz

How effective is snaring in WAR? My debuffer spec goes to 13 in Green for the AoE resist debuff / snare, as it looks like the closest thing to crowd control available, but again, if the mechanics make a 60% snare not a big deal, or snares break too easy (do they break in WAR?) or most people end up snared one way or another anyway, then there's no need for me to go that high in green.

The spec plan I cooked up, having not played the game, looks something like

3 points in Mork
3 points in Gork, plus Leaky Brains (to add a debuff to life leaka)
13 points in Green, plus Waagh Frenzy, You Really Got Nuthin, You'z Squishy, Ere We'z go Again, and Sticky Feetz.

If I'm reading it right, that spec should be able to near instantly dump debuffs on Intelligence, Willpower, Toughness, and Strength, have the AoE snare, and the next two attacks version of the group damage add, as the highlights of the spec.

That sound useful, or are those debuffs mostly just minor annoyances?

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Gorgok



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 20 i already had 390 Willpower, without really awesome gear on either. DPS classes will be roughly the same, casters with int, archers with ballistics. I'm not sure 150 points in the end game will be that big a deal considering those stats are half way.

My spec plan is very simple, 15 into Mork, everything except the first tactic, then 3 points into Gork and that tactic. Though it does give me more tactics i like than i have slots for, but i figure i'll have a pure healing set, for PVP, and a PQ set and a solo set at least.


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Blarg



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yeah see that's what I wanted to see. In DAoC debuffing 150 off a stat would have been pretty hefty so it sounded good at first, but looks like WAR stats go much much higher.

Probably time to rethink that plan then

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Buurzgoth



Joined: 23 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

End game, most characters should have around 800 in their primary stat.

Blargi, get off your lazy arse and start playing!


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Blarg



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installing now. Razz
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Kurghaash



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My intial plan with Hurchug was to go max into Gork to get the AOE knockback at range (14 points minimum investment). Then I saw how pathetic my healing was becoming. I went Gork up to the first debuff on INT from the DOT (great fun to cast that on a Bright Wizzie followed up by the INT debuff then the AP drain) and am now considering going healing the rest of the way.

I have had one-on-ones where I outlasted a melee class by draining them of AP, healing and shielding myself until I was full health, draining their health with DOT's and Waaagh then building myself back up in health to repeat the process. Many of them run off when they get below 25% health... So my healing was enough for me, but to be more healpful to a group, I really think I need more. I don;t want to become the healbot tho, so how do I go about it so that I can be an effective healer and put out decent damage/debuffage? Spec ideas?


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Wudgub



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarg wrote:
Ah yeah see that's what I wanted to see. In DAoC debuffing 150 off a stat would have been pretty hefty so it sounded good at first, but looks like WAR stats go much much higher.

Probably time to rethink that plan then


Well don't forget this (im pretty sure) raises as you level. Or is it just as you put points into da green? I'm going mostly da green right now just checking it out, although I wish the int stealing debuff lasted a bit longer.

No matter what I spec I'll probably be respeccing at 40 anyway depending on what specs we have fewer of. So I'm just trying stuff out right now


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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he was using a character builder (and i'm sure he was) then that was most likely the debuff at 40+his spec.

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Granaak



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarg wrote:
What kind of spec plans are most of you looking at long term?

How much does your spec in the healing path effect the amount you heal? One of the paths I was interested in ended up with something like 3 points in Mork, as most of it was in Green. Would my healing be terrible then, or is willpower really the main factor?...



I played Shaman almost constantly in closed beta. If things haven't changed drastically since then if you don't spec healing and stack wisdom gear your healing will be pitiful to say the least at level 40.

Example: A damage spec shaman with int gear will be healing for like 700-800 with his 3sec heal. A heal spec shaman with wis gear will be healing for like 1000-1200 with the same spell. Crit heals will make the spread even larger between the two specs and there are some very powerful healing abilities in the healing tree the damage spec shaman wouldn't have. The difference between lvl25 abilities (non-spec) and lvl40+ abilities (spec) is huge.


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Jherakh



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of posts on the Warhammer Alliance forums are pointing that at least for RvR, stacking Willpower is not giving a whole lot of bang for the buck. They found it is barely affecting HOTs, which I use my HOT and the HEAL/HOT the most often...I often am doing the click through our whole warband and try to help out everyone. Using the 3-sec heal isn't really feasible for that.

They say its still useful for the direct heals, just if you do a lot of HOTs, willpower just isn't stacking up and its just better overall to stack toughness and wounds.


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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the 3 sec all the time though, even in RVR. I often chain it in fact... so its none of that reduced timer trickery.

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Jherakh



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different strategies, and all viable, I am sure.

I have that "I have to top everyone off mentality" and try to keep the whole raid at 100%, lol... so I try to just double HOT everyone I can.

If I see someone really low, I try to throw the 3sec one, but they usually are being focus fired anyway and end up dying before it goes, hence, my hating the long cast time.

I guess I am more of the off-heal type person rather than a main-heal Smile


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Granaak



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My info is certainly dated as I haven't played a shaman much since the game went live. You all will have a better feeling for how they're playing now. For instance last time I played a shaman 'Shrug it Off' was the most awesome heal in your arsenal not some ho-hum AoE rez.

I always found that my HoTs maintained people or topped off people who were low but out of harms way. When it came to saving people taking focused fire though it was time to spam the 3sec heal as that was the only thing keeping anyone taking real damage on their feet. I kept my HoTs running on as many people as possible to give me time to react when someone started taking big damage so I could switch to spamming 3sec heals on them.

I was never big on running numbers for these games beyond what I observe while playing so I won't try to discuss the merits of wisdom and HoTs. I just know I felt like a much stronger healer with wisdom gear than I did in survivability gear or damage gear. That said I always went with wis > tough > wounds = resistances > int in my stat choices.


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Gorgok



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double tapping the hots on everyone will run you out of AP quick, but i still do it to someone i know will take hits soon. If im healing a orc who is getting focused i usually use the 3 sec until hes below half, alternating some hots if the big pushes him up enough. Once below half i like to pop the shield then throw in a big heal, hoping to get him back up before it fades so i can pump more. Works pretty well.

My damage is pretty poor when i focus this much on healing, but its still something while i see some healers do none at all.


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Azh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that shaman are at their most powerful when they can alternate between healing and dishing out damage.

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