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The Pantheon of the Founding Fathers of America

 
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Hin



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 5122
Character Skills: Pie

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: The Pantheon of the Founding Fathers of America Reply with quote

It was suggested that Presidents of the United States act as a pantheon of Gods similar to the ancient Greek, Norse, or Roman religions.

Based on ideas from others, I suggest we have a number of tiers in this religion.

The Seven Gods
These are the founding fathers of the US. The are thought of as Gods like Zeus, Thor, Odin, etc. They are referred to as "Lord" "President" (Even the ones that actually were not presidents) "God".

George Washington
God of Lies and War

Ben Franklin
God of Science and Invention

Samuel Adams
In a twist, the people of America now don't recall the actual founding father John Adams, and have confused this as Samuel Adams (John Adam's cousin).
God of Fertility and Beer

Thomas Jefferson
God of (Manifest)Destiny, Fate.

James Madison
God of Law

Alexander Hamilton
God of Death

John Jay
God of Mystery as nobody can quite remember who he was. God of luck

The Saints
Other Presidents of the US are considered saints. For instance Saint Taft with his 12-ton golden bathtub. Saint Lincoln and his crystal beard, etc. These can be referred to as "Saint" or "President".


In the guild, it is common to use references to legends and myths about these persons in interjections for instance. Or spinning tales on the boards or by the campfire.


Please post your ideas and thoughts here. This is fully malleable at this point.

.. more to come

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Ganthar



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be more appropriate for George Washington to be the God of Truth?

As for Lies having an evil god such as Benedict Arnold who is the god of Lies, Treachery could be good. I'm not sure he qualifies as a founding father though. However incorrect history is part of the joke and I suppose that could also apply to George Washington being the god of lies instead of truth.

Edit: Seven has a nice ring to it and on second thought I'd rather keep George Washington as the God of Lies/War.


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Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
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Hin



Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 5122
Character Skills: Pie

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point.

We could have a set of "evil gods" like you suggest. The Founding Fathers would be considered the seven gods of good, but maybe finding a set of polarities of these, maybe a mixture of political leaders that have stood out through the course of history..


Mao .. Stalin ... Churchill (Yeah he was english and the english were bad) ... Fidel Castro ... Benedict Arnold .. The Red Fury (a mashup of the WWI pilot red baron, and Adolph Hitler)

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Ganthar



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would vote against Churchhill being an evil god. It might cause hard feelings that I would rather avoid.

I would vote for Oscar Meyer the god of gluttony. If we decide to go with evil gods that is.


_________________
Khasha'an wrote:
Kuuk'agh wrote:
Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
Meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. Mmmmmm, I love it. In fact, I'm going to eat some beef right now. HOOWAH!
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Azh
Old Admin


Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 9902
Character Skills: Grandmaster Grumpiness

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Referring to them as Gods doesn't seem appropriate. How about using the honorific, 'Father' instead? ie, Father Washington, Father Benjamin. Even though they may not all be Founding Fathers, our history might be a little muddled on that point...

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Rakgru



Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 10986

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God of Lies works. The Iroquois know him as the "Great Liar" for his actions during the Revolutionary War.

BTW I am also a cousin of John Adams: can I get a place in the Pantheon?
Razz


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Grasknak



Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 2791

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Azh on the seeming lack of appropriateness in calling them Gods. Father or Saint or Pa or something else would, I think, be better suited.
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Ganthar



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious what about it you find inappropriate? Is it due to personal beliefs?
I'm not against reworking it but I'm curious what you guys specifically don't like about it.


_________________
Khasha'an wrote:
Kuuk'agh wrote:
Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
Meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. Mmmmmm, I love it. In fact, I'm going to eat some beef right now. HOOWAH!
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Grasknak



Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 2791

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it's a matter of... hero classification... or something. These were living breathing men with families and ancestors and descendents. Considering them gods seems over the top and somewhat contrary to some basic principals of the foundation of our country where it is not impossible for any unknown person to reach a similar status.

They are our founding fathers and as such are our equals. Elevating them to divine status just doesn't click for me. Legends and the subject of extraordinary tales and lore, yes. Gods, not really.

OR something along those lines.

On a much smaller note, I am a Freemason and share a fraternal bond with some of these men. Perhaps this adds to or alters my position in a manner.

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greevil



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 435

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasknak wrote:
For me it's a matter of... hero classification... or something. These were living breathing men with families and ancestors and descendents. Considering them gods seems over the top and somewhat contrary to some basic principals of the foundation of our country where it is not impossible for any unknown person to reach a similar status.

They are our founding fathers and as such are our equals. Elevating them to divine status just doesn't click for me. Legends and the subject of extraordinary tales and lore, yes. Gods, not really.

OR something along those lines.

On a much smaller note, I am a Freemason and share a fraternal bond with some of these men. Perhaps this adds to or alters my position in a manner.


Dunno. The place that these highly mythologized founding fathers (and others) occupies seems to me very little different from the place the Olympians occupied in the lives of the Greeks. The Greeks thought that mortals could be raised up to Olympus, too--just not very often. They even gave us a word for it ("apotheosis").

To be clear, I'm referring here to the distorted and mythologized memories of historical figures that are being worked out for the in-game lore; I'm not talking about the historical individuals that these myths are based on.

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Azh
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 9902
Character Skills: Grandmaster Grumpiness

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The game isn't set that far in the future. Also, according the game lore, magic is replacing technology, and the gods are arising from this. It seems like we would be more about trying to cling to the old ways.

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greevil



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 435

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
The game isn't set that far in the future. Also, according the game lore, magic is replacing technology, and the gods are arising from this. It seems like we would be more about trying to cling to the old ways.


That's a pretty good argument against them being regarded as gods. Heroes, more likely. Maybe a bit exaggerated in their heroic qualities (American settlers invented impossible figures like Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill in no time flat).

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Ganthar



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1881

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind we're forgetting the past according to the lore. So it would really be what we remember of it.

_________________
Khasha'an wrote:
Kuuk'agh wrote:
Meat is murder. If you take life from another creature you are a murderer.
Meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. Mmmmmm, I love it. In fact, I'm going to eat some beef right now. HOOWAH!
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Oribal



Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 3621

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azh wrote:
The game isn't set that far in the future. Also, according the game lore, magic is replacing technology, and the gods are arising from this. It seems like we would be more about trying to cling to the old ways.


I think there will be duality of technology or magic. Which one would attract more?

This from an early dev chat:

[22:44] Virtus: will skills be needed to reverse engineer?
[22:44] Jooky: that would be based more on stats such as intelligence
[22:44] Jooky: and your technological ability
[22:44] Virtus: so a "barbaric group" would have less of a chance
[22:44] Jooky: yes
[22:45] Virtus: isn't that a huge balance issue?
[22:45] Jooky: not at all
[22:45] Jooky: why would it be?
[22:45] Jooky: barbaric groups have access to religious magic
[22:45] Virtus: oh right
[22:45] Jooky: and other advantages
[22:45] Kev | Ripper: just like in arcanum
[22:45] Jooky: yes
[22:45] Jooky: very much so
[22:46] Jooky: I really liked arcanum. Lots of good ideas in that game.
[22:46] Kev | Ripper: guessed that as soon as i heard about tech vs religion
[22:47] Jooky:
[22:48] Virtus: so...when you pick up a spear and just use it do you instantly get 1 point?
[22:48] Virtus: or start at 0 and hit things and get up to 1?
[22:48] Jooky: start at 0
[22:48] Jooky: hit things

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